ICTs

[DodgyAgent]

No you don't

Simply open an office in Eastern Europe and have them work in there at local rates

Fair enough, Many companies have done this. One problem is that Eastern Europe cannot really compete on price with India. Anyway the whole point is not about offshoring work (which I cannot argue with) but about bringing cheap workers into the UK under the ICT "loophole"

[Spacecadet]

Have you seen the local rates in Eastern europe. They aren't far off our rates (thanks to ICT).

If you want Eastern Europeans the best bet is currently Latvia or Ukraine (but only if you know the right mobsters).

It's not just those two

[DodgyAgent]

It's not just those two

One is within the EU the other is not.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

There were people that had the same concerns when that new-fangled machinery was introduced that meant people no longer had jobs tilling the soil for agriculture.

What's the term that is used to describe those people?

Luddites (don't know if you were doing the ironing there) but the analogy is wrong - if there was widespread concerns about new technology then in this instance it would be about computerisation, and in fact we as individuals have embraced it and reaped the rewards.
The concern is that the Factory owners have now started to ship in foreign workers to operate the technology

You picked that up perfectly, thank you!

I don't see that there is a whole lot of difference between people being replaced by machines, computers or foreign imports. It all means change, we have the option to languish, adapt or embrace the change.

What a load of ill-researched self-congratulatory bollocks.

The Luddites had nothing to do with agriculture. They faced starvation, in the face of which I think I might take a few radical actions to survive. You need to do some proper history - you sound like David blinkin Starkey.

The one good thing about Troll's intervention above is that he makes the point that this isn't the same thing - and it isn't.

[eek]

It's not just those two

I was listing countries with lowish rates. Poland is doable but for much of Eastern Europe the rates you pay there are little different to the rates you pay here.

[Troll]

The Luddites had nothing to do with agriculture. They faced starvation, in the face of which I think I might take a few radical actions to survive. .

I was taught they faced the loss of their trade (and perhaps by extrapolation could starve) by the introduction of mechanised automated looms, meaning unskilled workers could produce and thereby replace the skilled textile workers

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I was taught they faced the loss of their trade (and perhaps by extrapolation could starve) by the introduction of mechanised automated looms, meaning unskilled workers could produce and thereby replace the skilled textile workers

There's no perhaps about it. These were highly skilled workers who were bound to employers for several years to learn their trade. They were almost instantly dismissed - they were given no opportunities for retraining or other work and they had no other way to make a living wage - some of the contemporary accounts (including those written by sympathetic gentry) are truly gut-wrenching.

[mrdonuts]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the country owes you a living. It doesn't.

You are going to have to adapt. It's not nice, but that is how it is. That is the same as how it has been for generations before us.

the government does owe its citizens a living, it should not be selling them out for their or their cronies personal gain

[Troll]

There's no perhaps about it. These were highly skilled workers who were bound to employers for several years to learn their trade. They were almost instantly dismissed - they were given no opportunities for retraining or other work and they had no other way to make a living wage - some of the contemporary accounts (including those written by sympathetic gentry) are truly gut-wrenching.

Ta - any recommended books on the matter for perusal?

[Spacecadet]

Ta - any recommended books on the matter for perusal?

Luddite fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia