ICTs

[yetanotherbob]

It's more or less similar to how the local manufacturing died as a result of cheap, mass produced foreign products - in the beginning they were of extremely low quality (Chinese products for example were notorious for this) but eventually the quality either got better over time or nobody cared any more. But fact of the matter is, local manufacturing lose.

In IT, I see this a result of a combination of various factors:
- Shortsightedness of UK businesses and even the government: Implications of low quality outsourced IT probably become apparent over a few years (while the 'profit' or 'cost savings' or whatever get in the accounts the same year the whole IT got outsourced = instant gratification).

- Even some of the local professionals it seem to have a laid back attitude, don't seem to want to go out of their comfort zone to learn something new and don't appear confident, 'can do' -
these are probably all that matter to business types who don't care or can't tell good IT from bad.

[ChimpMaster]

You guys need to watch the 1941 movie "How green was my valley". Really epitomises what we're going through here. It's happened before, it's happening now and it'll damn sure happen again.

[Arturo Bassick]

You guys need to watch the 1941 movie "How green was my valley". Really epitomises what we're going through here. It's happened before, it's happening now and it'll damn sure happen again.

A lot of what happened before was due to poor performance of British industries, archaic work practices and poor end product. This all combined to allow foreign manufacturers in.
The shame about the IT industry and particularly the contracting arm is that we are bloody good at it. We are mobile, flexible, skilled and motivated. The reason we are being sold down the river is because the powers that be don't like us. We are not traditional workers who can be controlled and we are smart enough to figure out how best to run our own businesses. HMRC and then Government paint us as tax dodgers instead of the world leading innovative hard working industry that we are.

[Gonzo]

It seems to me that they only exist to appease the total bastards that run multinational fascist companies - but what do I know?
Can someone put the cogent case (if there is one) for why it's better for Britain to import thousands of cheap skilled workers rather than train some of our own?

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the country owes you a living. It doesn't.

You are going to have to adapt. It's not nice, but that is how it is. That is the same as how it has been for generations before us.

[pacharan]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the country owes you a living. It doesn't.

Maybe not but those of us born before a certain time were led to believe that this was the case.

Work hard at school, go to university and get a good degree and the world's your oyster.

I have to confess though that even as recently as 5 years ago I was outraged by stories of jobs going to foreign workers.

I scarcely bat an eyelid now. I've been cowed into submission.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the country owes you a living. It doesn't.

You are going to have to adapt. It's not nice, but that is how it is. That is the same as how it has been for generations before us.

I wasn't talking about me. I am saddended but not surprised that you credit me with so little intelligence as to assume I hadn't figured out precisely what the world owes me. I am concerned for young people and the nation as a whole. The government should at least try to help them, not destroy their chances.

[Gonzo]

Maybe not but those of us born before a certain time were led to believe that this was the case.

Yes,we were. But did a look back through history support that assertion? It doesn't.

It is quite interesting to take a look around somewhere like Beamish up near Durham to see how someone could earn their maximum weekly wage straight after leaving school and comfortably support a family on that money. That was only 200 years ago and now look at them.

You would be mad to think that the same could not happen to any of us.

[Spacecadet]

I can't find the article I wanted to link to but it basically said a company is now as only as good as its developers because they are the only thing that separates them from every other business in the world. Granted it was talking about startups but I think its a true statement the best way to improve profits is to find the best people to identify improvements (whether its cost savings or extra sales) and then get them implemented as well as possible as quickly as possible.

Ta dah!

Now Every Company Is A Software Company - Forbes

There is also the case for the 10x developer which promotes the idea that 1 very good developer is worth at least 10 mediocre developers (or 100 rubbish developers)

In most companies there is no need to churn out 1000's of line of custom code as there are probably tools to do most of the work already on the market.
What is needed is people who know the tools well enough to get them working efficiently and write the small amout of code required to fill in the gaps.

[Gonzo]

I am concerned for young people and the nation as a whole.

There were people that had the same concerns when that new-fangled machinery was introduced that meant people no longer had jobs tilling the soil for agriculture.

What's the term that is used to describe those people?

[Churchill]

I wasn't talking about me. I am saddended but not surprised that you credit me with so little intelligence as to assume I hadn't figured out precisely what the world owes me. I am concerned for young people and the nation as a whole. The government should at least try to help them, not destroy their chances.

Go in to politics, we could do with people who think that way.

That was my one serious post of the day.

I'm off for a lie down now.