ICTs

[Troll]

You picked that up perfectly, thank you!

I don't see that there is a whole lot of difference between people being replaced by machines, computers or foreign imports. It all means change, we have the option to languish, adapt or embrace the change.

I disagree - we cannot compete with low cost countries on the price of labour - our overheads are too high tax, travel, housing etc.

In the past Governments recognised this and imposed tariffs on goods or services coming into whatever trading block to provide a level playing field for businesses

With the abuse of ICT companies get around this restriction by transporting the low cost labour unit directly into the local market without the associated overheads but while still charging near market rate for their services.

If business scream "globalisation is good " (and businesses will always be looking to maximise revenues) and the Government agrees, then the only way to compete will be to reduce our overheads to an equal level - and Education,Healthcare Housing, Defence etc budgets will have to be paired to follow suit - aka the race to the bottom

[DodgyAgent]

Which, in itself, begs the question why the incompetent Bobs proliferate rather then the competent eastern Europeans.

Because one would have to pay Eastern Europeans the same rates as UK workers

[Gonzo]

I disagree - we cannot compete with low cost countries on the price of labour - our overheads are too high tax, travel, housing etc.

Er, I agree!

We cannot compete on the price of labour for the same output.

This is where I disagree, we have to raise our game because the cheaper people can do the stuff we already do, but cheaper.

Protectionism is a short term fix that will help noone in the medium to long term.

[Arturo Bassick]

Protectionism is a short term fix that will help noone in the medium to long term.

It has to be protectionism. What other way is there?
I can not compete with a global market. Bob is just as good and just as fast but he does not have my overheads because he lives in a much cheaper environment. If he is allowed to work in my environment he will win. My only other solution is to move to his.

What do you propose?

[petergriffin]

It seems to me that they only exist to appease the total bastards that run multinational fascist companies - but what do I know?
Can someone put the cogent case (if there is one) for why it's better for Britain to import thousands of cheap skilled workers rather than train some of our own?

OMG this is soooo 2005. The future is young local graduates working for free under the work programme scheme or whatever it will be renamed to. Every little helps.

[DodgyAgent]

It has to be protectionism. What other way is there?
I can not compete with a global market. Bob is just as good and just as fast but he does not have my overheads because he lives in a much cheaper environment. If he is allowed to work in my environment he will win. My only other solution is to move to his.

What do you propose?

It is not about protectionism it is about immigration loopholes that enable foreign workers to come to the UK and undermine our system. Eastern Europeans fine they can work here and we can work there. Poland is growing and at some point it will be a wealthy country to sell to.

[Arturo Bassick]

It is not about protectionism it is about immigration loopholes that enable foreign workers to come to the UK and undermine our system. Eastern Europeans fine they can work here and we can work there. Poland is growing and at some point it will be a wealthy country to sell to.

Fair enough. My definition of protectionism includes blocking cheap foreign imports.

[Spacecadet]

Because one would have to pay Eastern Europeans the same rates as UK workers

No you don't

Simply open an office in Eastern Europe and have them work in there at local rates

[eek]

No you don't

Simply open an office in Eastern Europe and have them work in there at local rates

Have you seen the local rates in Eastern europe. They aren't far off our rates (thanks to ICT).

If you want Eastern Europeans the best bet is currently Latvia or Ukraine (but only if you know the right mobsters).

[Sysman]

Yes,we were. But did a look back through history support that assertion? It doesn't.

It is quite interesting to take a look around somewhere like Beamish up near Durham to see how someone could earn their maximum weekly wage straight after leaving school and comfortably support a family on that money. That was only 200 years ago and now look at them.

Not even 200 years ago. A neighbour who went into teaching in the 1960s did so in the face of severe opposition from his father who could see that local mill workers could earn more than teachers by the time they were 21.

But who still had jobs by the mid-80s, just 20 years later?

P.S. That neighbour earned boat loads of money through teaching, but not in the UK.