ICTs

[Spacecadet]

So that's 1000 ICTs then?

From my very limited experience... YES!

A few years ago I watch an ICT take 2 years to produce something which I could have built in 6 months. Luckily for the company (and me) a new programme director came in, saw how little they had done and then had the project canned before they could waste any more money.

[Arturo Bassick]

There were people that had the same concerns when that new-fangled machinery was introduced that meant people no longer had jobs tilling the soil for agriculture.

There have been concerns about workers throughout history and for just as long the workers have found new industries. The problem I have at the moment is that I am struggling to see where the new industries will come from.

[Gonzo]

There have been concerns about workers throughout history and for just as long the workers have found new industries. The problem I have at the moment is that I am struggling to see where the new industries will come from.

That is the point that I am trying to convey.

We don't like it but we are becoming redundant. That is not going to change though so we should learn something else.

I don't know what that something else is though so I am about to become a dinosaur.

[bobspud]

I can't find the article I wanted to link to but it basically said a company is now as only as good as its developers because they are the only thing that separates them from every other business in the world. Granted it was talking about startups but I think its a true statement the best way to improve profits is to find the best people to identify improvements (whether its cost savings or extra sales) and then get them implemented as well as possible as quickly as possible.

You don't need an article to tell you that, it's obvious. by the way its not just programmers. I have a team of the some of the most expensive guys on the market but they could run a lights out infrastructure far cheaper than the likes of HP, Fujitsu or IBM

I am watching my current client co throw away 300k of work because the cross charging politics ensure that the job that should cost no more than 60k with pure profit on top runs in at 500k (They were already told that the answer to win the business was 300k)

Plenty cheapness make much work...

[Troll]

There were people that had the same concerns when that new-fangled machinery was introduced that meant people no longer had jobs tilling the soil for agriculture.

What's the term that is used to describe those people?

Luddites (don't know if you were doing the ironing there) but the analogy is wrong - if there was widespread concerns about new technology then in this instance it would be about computerisation, and in fact we as individuals have embraced it and reaped the rewards.
The concern is that the Factory owners have now started to ship in foreign workers to operate the technology

[Troll]

A lot of what happened before was due to poor performance of British industries, archaic work practices and poor end product. This all combined to allow foreign manufacturers in.

And yet those same sunset industries now appear to be enjoying a renaissance under foreign ownership - perhaps the problem was British Management is poor

[eek]

Perceived cheapness make much work...

FTFY but it will be years until companies remember that 1 good onshore programmer is equal to 10 offshore ones.

[Gonzo]

Luddites (don't know if you were doing the ironing there) but the analogy is wrong - if there was widespread concerns about new technology then in this instance it would be about computerisation, and in fact we as individuals have embraced it and reaped the rewards.
The concern is that the Factory owners have now started to ship in foreign workers to operate the technology

You picked that up perfectly, thank you!

I don't see that there is a whole lot of difference between people being replaced by machines, computers or foreign imports. It all means change, we have the option to languish, adapt or embrace the change.

[Arturo Bassick]

And yet those same sunset industries now appear to be enjoying a renaissance under foreign ownership - perhaps the problem was British Management is poor

Nowhere near on the same scale though and trimmed down to bare bones. One or two niche industries are competing again, but only because what was cheap competition is now getting just as expensive and that has taken 1 if not 2 generations to roll around.

[DodgyAgent]

There is a lot of sanctimonious stuff being spouted about quality and a lot of self pity disguised under "I am concerned about others" here which basically implies that most of you do indeed think that you are owed a living.

I have a few points to make.

Firstly that the whole ICT thing is a scam. It has been encouraged by business partly as a backlash against contractors in the 1990s who held clients to ransom in a market that favoured the contractors from a supply point of view(and benefited me too I hasten to admit). ICTs not only offer cheap bums on seats but more importantly they dont p*** off to another job when offered.
The quality may be dubious but the key is reliability.
And of course it is cheap- which is the main reason for it flourishing so well.
There is another point that I know many of you are not going to like which is that we are now part of the European Union. The case for bringing in ICTs is further undermined by the fact that there are many IT bods in Eastern Europe who could do these jobs if in fact the UK lacked the skills.