Meta-study shows religious people are less intelligent

[d000hg]

See, that's what really makes atheists insane with frustration. Why on Earth should I be logical?

You can have the most insightful, rational and logical argument possible, backed with masses of scientific evidence, but there is no power in the universe that can MAKE me give up my faith. I can choose to be persuaded by your argument, but if I choose not to be then you are stumped!

Those who study Christian theology say it is logical. But debate can't convince anyone of anything... even discussing some scientific theory people can refuse to be convinced. Is that faith or stubborness?

[deano]

Actually I'm not holding my breath for your answers - I know the believers MO is to ignore the hard questions.

Sorry to disappoint you. Answered above. A little late because I went home and had my tea.

Not particularly hard questions. They may be for you of course, but that's understandable given your inability to remember the answers to questions you've already asked. Or is it inability to understand the answers in the first place. Can you get some sort of medication for it?

[deano]

Those who study Christian theology say it is logical. But debate can't convince anyone of anything... even discussing some scientific theory people can refuse to be convinced. Is that faith or stubborness?

I don't know. My understanding of Christian theology leads me to believe that it is logical. However I also believe science is logical, from quantum theory, through evolutionary theory and back to the big bang.

Neither do I see any particular dichotomy between the two positions. I always amazed when new scientific discoveries are made, just how clever God has been in creating them. Who would have thought that he has made us into what we are using something like evolution to get there. Incredible.

The two tie up nicely when I look at them in that light.

[NotAllThere]

Actually I'm not holding my breath for your answers - I know the believers MO is to ignore the hard questions.

For common or garden believers, that is the case. But theologians have wrestled with the philosophical problems of religion - the hard questions - for centuries.

If your question of "why do bad things happen" is answered "because God moves in mysterious ways", then the person answering hasn't thought through anything, and probably doesn't even know the basic tenets of what the purport to believe.

[NotAllThere]

...Who would have thought that he has made us into what we are using something like evolution to get there...

Stone the blasphemer!

[d000hg]

For common or garden believers, that is the case. But theologians have wrestled with the philosophical problems of religion - the hard questions - for centuries.

Indeed. Assuming all believers are stupid is pretty naive. ALL the smart/hard questions people trot out feeling smug about "this'll get 'em" - none of these are new questions, they have all been asked for centuries.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics which is concerned with this very subject.

[Ruprect]

I don't know. My understanding of Christian theology leads me to believe that it is logical. However I also believe science is logical, from quantum theory, through evolutionary theory and back to the big bang.

Neither do I see any particular dichotomy between the two positions. I always amazed when new scientific discoveries are made, just how clever God has been in creating them. Who would have thought that he has made us into what we are using something like evolution to get there. Incredible.

The two tie up nicely when I look at them in that light.

So you cherry pick which bits in your holy book to believe then?

[sasguru]

Okay, question 1. Previously on this thread I wrote....

There is no evidence for a supernatural being because by definition that means the being is "beyond" nature. And the only tools we have available are the ones we have fashioned from within nature. Ergo, there is no way to prove the existence of God.

That is why it is called faith.

Which bit don't you get?

2) It may not persuade you, but to be frank I don't really care whether I do or not. There's nothing in it for me after all. But it does for me. You might need to read around the subject though, but anyone who was around in the aftermath of 9/11 and who wasn't terribly dull might get the reference. I don't hold out much hope for you.

Genesis 17.17-27

17Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said to himself, “Can a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Can Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” 18And Abraham said to God, “O that Ishmael might live in your sight!” 19God said, “No, but your wife Sarah shall bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him.

Easy peasy. I'm beginning to think that with all the simple questions and having to keep repeating the answer, you might actually be a bit... well simple.

Ah Yes I probably am a bit simple.

So your answers to my question are:

1. There is no evidence you can point to for the existence of "God".
2. You can't really say why your beliefs are better than than the 9/11 bombers.

Fair enough.
I think I'll explore Buddhism a little more. That seems, in general, like a sensible sort of religion - if indeed it one.

[NotAllThere]

...Fair enough.
I think I'll explore Buddhism a little more. That seems, in general, like a sensible sort of religion - if indeed it one.

It certainly is a religion - by the criteria there are buddhists states who persecute anyone not of their faith. ( Bhutan, Burma ... ).

[sasguru]

Indeed. Assuming all believers are stupid is pretty naive. ALL the smart/hard questions people trot out feeling smug about "this'll get 'em" - none of these are new questions, they have all been asked for centuries.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologetics which is concerned with this very subject.

As I said a few posts back, I believe that religion is a human artefact, as evidenced by the myriad forms it takes and its dependence on particular cultures. That is my belief anyway, based on travelling widely and talking to many religious people. If Deano had been born in Iraq he quite possibly might have been a Jihadist and just as convinved of his rectitude as he is now.