Trump's legacy

[malvolio]

More borrowing you say?

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/cons...conomy-2010-24

But yeah, the NI increase was totally stupid.

Borrowing rates themselves are kind of beyond the control of the government though, the market decides.

Did we have wealth creators in this country to scare away? I thought they were mostly just creaming it off in £105 million sized handouts like Baroness Mone.

So th0se jumps are nothing to do with having to repair Brown's mistakes and Covid I suppose?

The real point is that Reeves is borrowing to support expenditure rather than building the reserves that expenditure would need, and claiming the economy is doing well...

[willendure]

So th0se jumps are nothing to do with having to repair Brown's mistakes and Covid I suppose?

The real point is that Reeves is borrowing to support expenditure rather than building the reserves that expenditure would need, and claiming the economy is doing well...

The jumps are quite obviously the GFC and Covid, not really things that any government could have predicted.

Still went from 65% at end of GFC time to 85% at start of Covid time under the tories. And where are we at now? 96% I believe, so it has not really budged much since the post-covid level. I am not sure the evidence for claiming that Labour are on a massive borrowing spree really stacks up.

Gordon Browns biggest mistake was selling off all the gold, believing it to be a "barbarous relic"

[Protagoras]

Gordon Browns biggest mistake was selling off all the gold, believing it to be a "barbarous relic"

Perhaps the three biggest mistakes ...
- Bailing out banks
- Selling off gold
- IR35

[DoctorStrangelove]

Compared with the Tories selling off everything that wasn't nailed down, the gold is the least of it.

[Paddy]

Perhaps the three biggest mistakes ...
- Bailing out banks
- Selling off gold
- IR35

Spoiler alert: The gold was kept in the USA and was long sold by the USA who carry fractional reserves for the European countries. They never expected countries to actually ask for their gold back.

[malvolio]

Compared with the Tories selling off everything that wasn't nailed down, the gold is the least of it.

That was 50 years ago. And more to the point, the public sector bodies they replaced were bloody awful.

Where it started to go wrong was when the regulation of the privatised bodies was hived off to an ever-growing pile of quangos and away from ministers, so they, just like all those crap PFI deals, came off the government's bottom line.

As for Reeves' borrowing, have you really looked at the current numbers? There was a dip against budget recently, but the overall figure is not actually going down all that much. £56bn of extra tax income has something to do with it of course. OTOH spending on welfare and public sector salaries is continuing to go up.

[Protagoras]

Spoiler alert: The gold was kept in the USA and was long sold by the USA who carry fractional reserves for the European countries. They never expected countries to actually ask for their gold back.

That's interesting in the context of discussions re Germany repatriating its gold. Is it actually there to repatriate?

That was 50 years ago. And more to the point, the public sector bodies they replaced were bloody awful.

I'm not sure that's universal true ...
I worked for CEGB and also for a port authority. I think these were better in public than private ownership - especially CEGB which gave us something close to national energy strategy.

I do agree that there was a collapse of subsequent regulation, which remains ineffective.

[DoctorStrangelove]

That was 50 years ago. And more to the point, the public sector bodies they replaced were bloody

No. It started 45 years ago and continued unabated until 1997.

Would the CEGB have built a combined cycle gas turbine power station in Baglan Bay, along with a massive gas pipe line to Hirwaun for a 17 year lifetime?

I rather think not. Then again I'm sure the Australian bankers made a mint out of it after they'd crossed assorted palms with silver.

[WTFH]

Perhaps the three biggest mistakes ...
- Bailing out banks
- Selling off gold
- IR35

He also paid back the Anglo-American Loan.

The graph that Mal won't like is the one where you overlay the UK debt with the US debt from 2001 to 2011, and they practically mirror each other. Who knew Gordon Brown controlled the US economy as well?

[malvolio]

No. It started 45 years ago and continued unabated until 1997.

Which is when most government infrastructure projects were hived off to the private sector under ruinous (and continuing) PFI deals, the civil service was politicised, the Cabinet was side-lined in favour of personally appointed (and often unqualified) friends, relations, SPADS and other advisors, regulatory duties were passed on to toothless quangos and Brown sold off the gold and screwed what was the world's best pension scheme...

Your point is?