We forgot Jesus birthday

[sadkingbilly]

WGAFF??

[NigelJK]

Once you understand the early Christian church's need to recruit converts (particularly in Northern Europe) you can understand their hijacking of the (very popular) mid-winter festival.

There is also strong evidence to suggest that that figure of Mary has more to do with incorporating other North European customs of a Marie (sp? apologies don't have the time to find links) figure.

Personally, I've always thought of the current festivities as being more akin to that than any sky fairy propaganda.

[NotAllThere]

Personally, I've always thought of the current festivities as being more akin to that

Well exactly. But every Christmas time idiot will pop up saying "Ah, but it's not Jesus's birthday".

No. It never was. It was simply the designated day to celebrate it.

WGAFF??

Mind you with vetran...

[WTFH]

Jesus the man existing - the name was pretty common so a Jesus of Nazareth is no more exciting than John of Northampton.

That isn't exactly a burning bush or bolt of lightening.

Believe what you like, just don't expect me to join you. Sorry your beliefs are no more important than mine and what I believe in can be believed in without scrabbling about for proof.

Nice bit of deflection there, and clear evidence of your ignorance.
Go read a bit of Roman history - maybe Flavius Josephus.

[ladymuck]

I like origin stories. Every culture has them as there has always been a need for people to understand where we came from and why we are here. Some cultures turn that into an organised religion, with factions and offshoots developing over time. Others just keep them as stories that share common themes important to that group in an entertaining way.

None of these stories need to be empirically proven in any way. That's not really their purpose.

The pure atheist view is almost a religion in itself, maybe more akin to a cult, considering some of the fervour with which its proponents push their viewpoint with as much zeal as a door to door Mormon.

[vetran]

WGAFF??

Not Joseph apparently!

[vetran]

What we have here is a simple failure to understand. The church decided to celebrate the nativity in the middle of winter, offering an alternative to Saturnalia (whose roots Christmas never real overcame). While among the ill-informed, such as yourself, many people assumed that that meant that's when he was born, it was never actual church doctrine. No lies were told.

Fairly standard Christian belief is that Adam sinned by eating fruit from the Tree of Life. At that point not only did he fall from grace, so did the entirety of creation.

That's why there are mosquitoes. They're a product of the corruption of what was good and perfect, as are natural disasters. Man-made disasters and other killing are entirely down to us - and Satan, who became god of this world. Satan is a malevolent being doing his best to bring about misery. Not that he needs a great deal of help.

I do find it interesting that many atheists who denigrate Christianity know very little about it. And what they do know is wrong. Mind you, many professing Christians don't know much either.

So phrases in common use such a the day of Christ's birth are a slip of the tongue in the churches run by highly trained priests around Christmas time? Imagine them being that ignorant. Remember I was raised Christian, goodness knows how many Carol & Xmas services I went to (being in the choir).

Well the Muslim Belief is that the Jews and by extension the Christians annoyed this benevolent and all powerful god that kills little babies with Malaria because Adam and Eve "sinned" so the world belongs to them hence all the suicide bombers. Sounds like a story to me or is Allah Akbhar?

Its not ignorance, its contempt for the Church jumping on the bandwagon to hook followers. This is the same bunch who tortured everyone in the inquisition and gave religious support for slavery. Not the bunch to be supporting.

[vetran]

Nice bit of deflection there, and clear evidence of your ignorance.
Go read a bit of Roman history - maybe Flavius Josephus.

So someone who was called Jesus (as common as John) was crucified effectively for sedition? It was one of the common example punishments of the Romans. This means beyond doubt he is the son of god? Obviously irrefutable, again a lack of belief in a story regardless of who may have repeated it is not ignorance.

How did Spartacus et al die? Their story is well documented and none of what they achieved was because of alleged miracles.

Were I rude that could be considered a clear proof of your delusion, believing a criminal was actually the son of a "god" is a stretch.

[vetran]

I like origin stories. Every culture has them as there has always been a need for people to understand where we came from and why we are here. Some cultures turn that into an organised religion, with factions and offshoots developing over time. Others just keep them as stories that share common themes important to that group in an entertaining way.

None of these stories need to be empirically proven in any way. That's not really their purpose.

The pure atheist view is almost a religion in itself, maybe more akin to a cult, considering some of the fervour with which its proponents push their viewpoint with as much zeal as a door to door Mormon.

That was how I intended to approach it. If someone can provide a proof of a Deity I will review it I am not closed minded like some. If more information surfaces about an alleged god I am curious.

I'm with Terry Pratchett, people need gods and vice versa.

[Zigenare]

I like origin stories. Every culture has them as there has always been a need for people to understand where we came from and why we are here. Some cultures turn that into an organised religion, with factions and offshoots developing over time. Others just keep them as stories that share common themes important to that group in an entertaining way.

None of these stories need to be empirically proven in any way. That's not really their purpose.

The pure atheist view is almost a religion in itself, maybe more akin to a cult, considering some of the fervour with which its proponents push their viewpoint with as much zeal as a door to door Mormon.

That sounds rather benign given the effect that organised religions have had and are having, namely being used to manipulate the (kept that way) ignorant masses by the "educated" few. "You don't need to read the holy texts, I shall read them to you" has led to all types of shenanigans through history...