It really is watery rubbish

[dsc]

Have you been Irishing your morning coffee today, or would you care to elaborate what on earth you mean

Shorter / faster going queues is one thing, ever been to a busy Italian (not that coffee in Italy is great btw) cafe in the morning? most people order a simple coffee which for them is espresso which takes roughly 25-35sec to make and 10sec to serve on the counter, if they were to add milk to everything it would take significantly longer. Same with brewed coffee, batch brew can be made in larger volumes and you just fill a cup, done, next customer. Milk goes off, you have to clean steam wands properly and you do not want to see the insides of badly cleaned bean-to-cup machines, trust me (or go on youtube and see for yourself what tulip lurks inside of those full automatics). Yes wet coffee pucks go mouldy as well, but it takes longer.

SB (and others) tastes like ashtray contents cause it's basically roasted till it's charcoal, it's usually drowned in at least 0.5l of milk, so you need a specific "hint" of coffee otherwise people moan it's too milky. Sadly for most people coffee == burnt charcoal like taste, so there.

[d000hg]

Shorter / faster going queues is one thing, ever been to a busy Italian (not that coffee in Italy is great btw) cafe in the morning? most people order a simple coffee which for them is espresso which takes roughly 25-35sec to make and 10sec to serve on the counter, if they were to add milk to everything it would take significantly longer.

Yes but Italian culture is to basically pick up your espresso, down it and get out. And like a Guinness pub, everyone ordering the same makes it easier to streamline? English coffee culture isn't the same.

SB (and others) tastes like ashtray contents cause it's basically roasted till it's charcoal, it's usually drowned in at least 0.5l of milk, so you need a specific "hint" of coffee otherwise people moan it's too milky. Sadly for most people coffee == burnt charcoal like taste, so there.

Most people seem to buy Americano, I thought? Or add a splash of milk to a long black. I can see on a latte this makes sense but IME even a caramel wannkerlatte tastes far better from Costa (or a proper coffee place) than SB as well. Presumably in a perfect world you'd use one blend/roast for black and another for 'milkshakes'?

[vwdan]

I rarely buy a coffee any more due to almost entirely remote working and a nice bean-to-cup machine at home, but I've always really disliked Starbucks coffee, it just tastes like someone rinsed out an ashtray, while Costa and Pret are acceptably nice. Of course this is just to my own tastes - I drink my coffee black and I suppose if you add milk etc it can remove those bitter edges and round it off. But it's a nice bonus to know that I'm also getting a bigger caffeine hit for my buck from my preferred coffee shops

Have to agree with this - I try not to be a coffee snob, but I do enjoy coffee and Starbucks is pretty awful. I do quite like their filter, though - but I have had some that had clearly sat for hours and needed chucking.

That said, now I make nice coffee at home, I tend to use coffee shops for things like caramel latte's which I can't be bothered making myself, and they taste fine with any old tulip really.

I've starting doing more light roasts at home, and I think that's essentially the opposite to Starbuck's charcoal method.

[dsc]

Yes but Italian culture is to basically pick up your espresso, down it and get out. And like a Guinness pub, everyone ordering the same makes it easier to streamline? English coffee culture isn't the same.

Sure, I just said it would be much easier if people stopped having milky drinks. Majority of coffees sold in cafes are milk based, some independents offer brewed filter etc. but it takes way too long to serve, so I'd say espresso + batch brew is the way forward.

For anyone who drinks coffee, give your local indy a try, they often have less charcoally coffee which you might like.

[d000hg]

Sure, I just said it would be much easier if people stopped having milky drinks. Majority of coffees sold in cafes are milk based, some independents offer brewed filter etc. but it takes way too long to serve, so I'd say espresso + batch brew is the way forward.

Well yes but we come from a tradition as tea drinkers, so is it really a problem that extra 20s?

With you on supporting local places though, for numerous reasons. I've nothing against Costa and Nero but independent coffee shops are so varied and often so quirky and interesting. No two are the same and that's fun.

[mattster]

Sure, I just said it would be much easier if people stopped having milky drinks. Majority of coffees sold in cafes are milk based, some independents offer brewed filter etc. but it takes way too long to serve, so I'd say espresso + batch brew is the way forward.

For anyone who drinks coffee, give your local indy a try, they often have less charcoally coffee which you might like.

Much easier? Maybe, but since the vast majority of people prefer milk drinks (by my idle estimation at the counter, at least) it's not something that would make a lot of business sense. I mean, I (really) wish people didn't order cocktails at the bar in front of me when I am trying to get served, but it is what it is.

I've gone down the home coffee rabbit hole a bit since lock down - decent grinder, espresso machine and working on various mods etc. Unfortunately there's very few coffee shops that actually make a consistently better coffee than a good home one, just the occasional independents who are really into it. Having said that I think Pret is oK for a chain and the subscription is actually decent value if you are in the office enough (I am not).

[Gibbon]

Sure, I just said it would be much easier if people stopped having milky drinks. Majority of coffees sold in cafes are milk based, some independents offer brewed filter etc. but it takes way too long to serve, so I'd say espresso + batch brew is the way forward.

IMHO the milk, per se, is not the problem really when compared to Italian Bars. It is the amount of milk, variety, skill level, division of labour and ordering method that lengthens the wait. BTW I have had a lot of good coffee in Italy over the last 20 years.

In the normal bar, you have already decided and ordered and paid for what you want coffee and food wise before you get to the bar. When busy the barista(s) will be making several drinks simultaneously with usually one jug of milk enough for several milk type coffees. Very rarely in downtown places do you hear 'skinny' 'soya' etc. The baristas are also not tasked with upselling either and the dithering when someone decides that they might have a cake but don't really know which one.

Also at breakfast going on my experience most orders are for a milk coffee, but rarely after apart from an espresso macchiato which is my preference as I find I don't need to add sugar. This was certainly the case in northern Rome last week at the local bar.

At home I only really drink coffee mid morning with an very occasional pm one if flagging. I'll be cast an heretic but I now use Nespresso mainly for the convenience/taste trade off. I used to do the bean to cup malarkey but 30 mins is too long to set up and tidy away for one cup. Pre ground goes off after a week so gone for the pods. Tend to have the lighter roasts now as more subtle flavours.

[Snooky]

I used to do the bean to cup malarkey but 30 mins is too long to set up and tidy away for one cup

Much as I'm fussy about my coffee, I'm clearly not enough of an aficionado because I just have a DeLonghi bean to cup machine which grinds and brews the coffee at the touch of a button - max 1 minute including filling the water container. Still tastes great to me, but I think so much of it is down to the bean as you say.

As for pre-ground, I keep it in the freezer and it stays fresh much longer that way. And who makes a bag of coffee last a week?

[d000hg]

I mean, I (really) wish people didn't order cocktails at the bar in front of me when I am trying to get served, but it is what it is.

Jeez, with you on that... especially places where they don't really know how to make them.
And if people you're with want cocktails, nip to the bar and get a pint while they faff about deciding

[Gibbon]

And who makes a bag of coffee last a week?

Them there us Yorkshire Tea drinkers! (which always accompany us on holiday business trips. Although its a hard decision when on site and the tea bags are free but tulipe, I haven't succumbed to the free yet, but fear I may be cast out to Lancashire for being a spendthrift!)