You really have to laugh....

[TestMangler]

Yes. Says more about the Labour and Tory parties in Scotland than it does about the SNP. If the electorate looked at their actual record in government, it might be a little different. Also I think the Westminster numbers last time were biased by nobody wanting Corbyn and very few Scots wanting the Tories.

Sturgeon claims there is a clear mandate for a referendum based on their election results assuming everyone who votes SNP wants Out. Rather than that people just voted for SNP because they like them better.

Equally, about a third of voters who Vote Labour (not that we have many of these left in Scotland) also favour independence. There is quite a sizeable 'Labour for Indy' group, but it's not the Official labour Party policy as the Scottish Branch is not an autonomous party and has to 'tow the Westminster party line'.

Given that from its inception, the SNP's number #1 policy has been independence, I think you're also constructing scenarios in your head

[malvolio]

Equally, about a third of voters who Vote Labour (not that we have many of these left in Scotland) also favour independence. There is quite a sizeable 'Labour for Indy' group, but it's not the Official labour Party policy as the Scottish Branch is not an autonomous party and has to 'tow the Westminster party line'.

Given that from its inception, the SNP's number #1 policy has been independence, I think you're also constructing scenarios in your head

No I'm not. Merely proposing an alterative interpretation.

But you still haven't demonstrated a majority for independence, nor that the case for it is viable. Most of the SNP's answer on that subject are either redundant or risible.

[d000hg]

Equally, about a third of voters who Vote Labour (not that we have many of these left in Scotland) also favour independence. There is quite a sizeable 'Labour for Indy' group, but it's not the Official labour Party policy as the Scottish Branch is not an autonomous party and has to 'tow the Westminster party line'.

Given that from its inception, the SNP's number #1 policy has been independence, I think you're also constructing scenarios in your head

Given I haven't mentioned a scenario, that makes little sense. SNP had a clear mandate for a referendum last time, and they got it. SNP have been the leading party in SCotland since 2007 and with little gain since 2011. Since the last referendum little has changed in their popularity so there is no mandate for another. "we're still popular" Is not a mandate to rehold the vote.

[TestMangler]

Yes. Says more about the Labour and Tory parties in Scotland than it does about the SNP. If the electorate looked at their actual record in government, it might be a little different. Also I think the Westminster numbers last time were biased by nobody wanting Corbyn and very few Scots wanting the Tories.

Given I haven't mentioned a scenario, that makes little sense. SNP had a clear mandate for a referendum last time, and they got it. SNP have been the leading party in SCotland since 2007 and with little gain since 2011. Since the last referendum little has changed in their popularity so there is no mandate for another. "we're still popular" Is not a mandate to rehold the vote.

This is why it's a waste of time discussing anything with Tory voters. You just make tulip up.

SNP vote numbers, Holyrood Constituency votes.

2011 92K
2016 1.1M
2021 1.2M

[gables]

As someone who lives here in Scotland; anyone voting for the SNP must do so in the knowledge that it is also a vote for a referendum as it is a key component of the manifesto, which obviously they can vote against. A vote for the referendum does not mean a vote for independence.

And I really don't understand the reluctance by any opposition party, they all say with confidence the majority don't want independence so have the vote and be proved correct unless of course they're really not that sure.

[NotAllThere]

And I really don't understand the reluctance by any opposition party, they all say with confidence the majority don't want independence so have the vote and be proved correct unless of course they're really not that sure.

Because they remember Brexit. If a referendum votes for change, it can't be undone. Better not to have a referendum - just in case.

[TestMangler]

Yes. Says more about the Labour and Tory parties in Scotland than it does about the SNP. If the electorate looked at their actual record in government, it might be a little different. Also I think the Westminster numbers last time were biased by nobody wanting Corbyn and very few Scots wanting the Tories.

As someone who lives here in Scotland; anyone voting for the SNP must do so in the knowledge that it is also a vote for a referendum as it is a key component of the manifesto, which obviously they can vote against. A vote for the referendum does not mean a vote for independence.

And I really don't understand the reluctance by any opposition party, they all say with confidence the majority don't want independence so have the vote and be proved correct unless of course they're really not that sure.

^^ This.

if you look back to the state sponsored adverts and media for Malta's independence, they used exactly the same arguments.

Scotland has voted for parties who's main manifesto pledge is attaining independence, in ever increasing numbers since 2011. A Majority of Westminster MP's by some margin and a party holding circa 50% of the seats in the Scottish parliament (by proportional representation). The 'no mandate' argument doesn't really exist, except in the minds of Tory Little Englanders (even if they're Welsh, Malvolio).

[Zigenare]

As someone who lives here in Scotland; anyone voting for the SNP must do so in the knowledge that it is also a vote for a referendum as it is a key component of the manifesto, which obviously they can vote against. A vote for the referendum does not mean a vote for independence.

And I really don't understand the reluctance by any opposition party, they all say with confidence the majority don't want independence so have the vote and be proved correct unless of course they're really not that sure.

What part of the once in a generation scottish independence referendum was held in 2014 do you also not understand?

[Snooky]

This is why it's a waste of time discussing anything with Tory voters. You just make tulip up.

Did I miss the bit where anyone said they were a Tory voter? Or is this just simplistic pigeonholing, i.e. "you're daring to question something I believe in, so you must be one of the enemy"?

[TestMangler]

What part of the once in a generation scottish independence referendum was held in 2014 do you also not understand?

There he goes, same dumb c**t argument from the same dumb c**t. There was nothing in any of the settlement agreement for the referendum signed by Salmond and Cameron that stated it was once in a generation. It was a line used by Salmond in a TV interview. The same way BoJo stated on TV and at a meeting that there would be no customs border between Britain and NI. Is your argument that only things said in TV interviews by Scots are legally binding ?

For info, by the way, the UK Govt definition of a generation , as set out in the NI devolved settlement, is 7 years.