Need a rant: not got a contract due to positive discrimination

[SueEllen]

My claim for discrimination is on age which is a protected characteristic and not 'language ability'.
Anyone 45'ish or older would have been hard pushed to find any Welsh being offered in school (my school didn't have any Welsh lessons at all) while in the last 20 years it has become compulsory from Year 1 to Year 11.
In my mind this is indirect age discrimination.

As far as the role goes, Welsh language skills are completely non-required; I know this as I've worked on similar projects and the developers aren't based in Wales and develop using English documentation, English language meetings etc. etc. The agency have only put forward cv's of welsh speakers and if they don't pass the interview then they'll put forward the non-Welsh speakers; I'm a 'big boy' but find the WAG attitude to Welsh to be one of my 'triggers' .

You would fail on the age discrimination aspect as I actually know and knew people over 45 - nearer 50- who had Welsh lessons in school in Wales.

I remember them telling me because I tend to ask people what languages they speak or learnt.

Also there is nothing stopping you even now as an adult learning a few words of Welsh to show that you are interested in the language and culture around the language. There are roles and jobs that are happy to take you on even if you are a beginner in the other language(s) they want.

Anyway you just can't get over the fact they just don't like you and are making up a reason not to give you the contract.

[Whorty]

My claim for discrimination is on age which is a protected characteristic and not 'language ability'.
Anyone 45'ish or older would have been hard pushed to find any Welsh being offered in school (my school didn't have any Welsh lessons at all) while in the last 20 years it has become compulsory from Year 1 to Year 11.
In my mind this is indirect age discrimination.

As far as the role goes, Welsh language skills are completely non-required; I know this as I've worked on similar projects and the developers aren't based in Wales and develop using English documentation, English language meetings etc. etc. The agency have only put forward cv's of welsh speakers and if they don't pass the interview then they'll put forward the non-Welsh speakers; I'm a 'big boy' but find the WAG attitude to Welsh to be one of my 'triggers' .

Sorry mate, but age isn't an excuse for not learning a language. As per Sue, I also know someone who is 53 and learned Welsh at school (he lived in Chester but went to school over the border). In fact, even now he can sing the Welsh national anthem (don't ask how I know, it was a very drunken day).

Plenty resources available for free online to learn some phrases if you're that bothered. Wouldn't take more than a day or 2 to pick up some simple ones like "hello", "goodbye" and "hundred*, you must be joking"

* this is a great Welsh word to know - put it in Google translate and hear them say it

[Lance]

Went for a role which I was absolutely qualified for on all counts.
Turned down as I'm not a Welsh speaker.
This has nothing to do with the role which doesn't require Welsh but is due to the Welsh Governments insistence on all employees having at least conversational level Welsh (they call it 'courtesy level').
As the role is Outside IR35 the role isn't for an employee and the Welsh speaking status of the successful candidate shouldn't be a part of the awarding process; but I guess the Taffia Rule in the Welsh Gov .

As an aside, does anti-discrimination laws apply to contract awarding? I feel I could make a case that I'm not a Welsh speaker due to my age (which is protected characteristic) as Welsh wasn't offered as an option when I was in school as it is now....any ideas?

Rant over....cheers

Requiring a candidate to speak a particular language is not discrimination. It's just a requirement. That you weren't qualified for.
You just don't think Welsh is a real language (a valid, but discriminatory point).
Your view that the role doesn't require Welsh language skills is different to the government requirement that says it does.

[Lance]

Anyway you just can't get over the fact they just don't like you and are making up a reason not to give you the contract.

Interviewer : do you speak basic polite Welsh
OP: No. It's a waste of time and not needed. It's not even a real language, and most Welsh people don't speak it anyway.
Interviewer:

[Paralytic]

Claiming that requiring Welsh as spoken language is no more discriminatory than a software house requiring Java as a development language. It's a skill that can be learned, not a facet of that person's ethnic or religious background.

[jamesbrown]

Claiming that requiring Welsh as spoken language is no more discriminatory than a software house requiring Java as a development language. It's a skill that can be learned, not a facet of that person's ethnic or religious background.

The main difference between Welsh and Java is that Welsh is a better programming language.

[ladymuck]

The main difference between Welsh and Java is that Welsh is a better programming language.

[DoctorStrangelove]

There's tidy then, boyo.

<DoctorStrangleove, purveyor of fine Cobalt Thorium G and Grade 4 Welsh GCE O level (the one for non Welsh speakers)>

Having worked in HE in an esteemed establishment taken over by the rather smaller establishments further west, the emphasis on Speaka Da Lingo changed quite dramatically.

Endless questionaires about your willingness and ability to Speaka Da Lingo and/or willingness to learn it.

Thank feck I retired before it became compulsory.

Also those poor souls who were transferred down west found that no one would talk to them other than Yng Nghymraeg even if they didn't Speaka Da Lingo.

Nice.

[David71]

I think a lot of you are missing the point, Welsh isn't required for the role, it's required so you can say 'Hello' to the language warriors that stalk the hallways of the WAG building in Cathays park refusing to talk in English and insisting everyone speaks Welsh to them - I've worked there enough to have fallen foul of them a few times.

As far as plenty of over 45s speaking Welsh - I guess most of them didn't grow up in South Wales, Cardiff / Newport area where Welsh wasn't just not offered but was actively discouraged where it was available as a 'waste' of an O level option.

If I was missing a role specific requirement I wouldn't give a monkeys, but when a member of the Project Governance board has given you a personal recommendation but the agency refuses to send over your cv as the project hiring manager has a thing for Welsh speakers then it is annoying. FYI: this is the first time the agency has seen this 'strongly desired' requirement added to a contract role spec before and it sounds like it is just due to a single person pushing the language agenda.

If you don't live here, you wouldn't understand the trouble the Taffia cause with pushing the language on everyone; I'm a proud Welshman, got the tattoo and everything, but language fascists are a pain in the backside.

[Paralytic]

If I was missing a role specific requirement I wouldn't give a monkeys...

It sounds like you were missing a specific requirement: Welsh.

Or it was for another reason, but you're just assuming because you can't speak Welsh. Do you have BO, perhaps?