Need a rant: not got a contract due to positive discrimination

[David71]

Went for a role which I was absolutely qualified for on all counts.
Turned down as I'm not a Welsh speaker.
This has nothing to do with the role which doesn't require Welsh but is due to the Welsh Governments insistence on all employees having at least conversational level Welsh (they call it 'courtesy level').
As the role is Outside IR35 the role isn't for an employee and the Welsh speaking status of the successful candidate shouldn't be a part of the awarding process; but I guess the Taffia Rule in the Welsh Gov .

As an aside, does anti-discrimination laws apply to contract awarding? I feel I could make a case that I'm not a Welsh speaker due to my age (which is protected characteristic) as Welsh wasn't offered as an option when I was in school as it is now....any ideas?

Rant over....cheers

[DoctorStrangelove]

"shumai wus" has always worked for me.

I take it this is a role in the Taffia obsessed WAG then?

[Paddy]

I had the same on a welsh contract application some years ago. I was also turned down by the BOE in the early 2000s because they had a positive discrimination policy to take on black and Asians to make up the correct numbers; (I still have the email from BOE HR).

[vetran]

I had the same on a welsh contract application some years ago. I was also turned down by the BOE in the early 2000s because they had a positive discrimination policy to take on black and Asians to make up the correct numbers; (I still have the email from BOE HR).

The BOE was very white when I went there in the 90s. Even the security guards and cleaners were white (and ancient). Most other big sites had Asian cleaners and African security guards by that time with the occasional non english technical or dealing staff.

[northernladuk]

As an aside, does anti-discrimination laws apply to contract awarding? I feel I could make a case that I'm not a Welsh speaker due to my age (which is protected characteristic) as Welsh wasn't offered as an option when I was in school as it is now....any ideas?

No up to a point. It's a requirement by the client even if it wasn't detailed in the contract so wouldn't wash. I'm sure there are other laws that would make a difference if you were black, gay or any of the other hot discrimination areas but any of them stop a person doing a role. Not speaking Welsh would and apply to any of the aforementioned groups so it's a different level of discrimination that no one cares about. The process to go through to try fight your case is very expensive and extremely long so not a chance it will happen anyway. I'm sure many people would agree with you and I'm sure you could get people in the legal profession to say it's not right either but no one will want to do anything about it.

[Whorty]

Why is requiring a language discriminatory? I've seen contracts before where French was required as some of the team were based in France and there might be a need to converse to them in their language.

Happens in other countries where candidates have to be able to speak English as it's the most common business language.

[jayn200]

Let it go, you're a business owner, don't get caught up in legal battle because your feelings are hurt or because you don't get awarded a contract which you incurred 0 expense other than a bit of time in going after.

[Paddy]

Why is requiring a language discriminatory? I've seen contracts before where French was required as some of the team were based in France and there might be a need to converse to them in their language.

Happens in other countries where candidates have to be able to speak English as it's the most common business language.

You can't compare French with Welsh. Only 18% of Welsh claim they can speak Welsh and the true percentage is much lower. There are no Welsh who cannot speak English therefore in the workplace Welsh is irrelevant unless you are working for a broadcast company or writing articles in the news in which case you will need a degree in Welsh. Advertising for Welsh speakers is pure discrimination.

[northernladuk]

You can't compare French with Welsh. Only 18% of Welsh claim they can speak Welsh and the true percentage is much lower. There are no Welsh who cannot speak English therefore in the workplace Welsh is irrelevant unless you are working for a broadcast company or writing articles in the news in which case you will need a degree in Welsh. Advertising for Welsh speakers is pure discrimination.

No it isn't.

https://arts.wales/sites/default/fil...0f2%5B1%5D.pdf

The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages

5.3 The UK Government ratified this charter in March 2001 thus committing itself to its implementation with regard to the Welsh language. One of the principles of the charter, which is fundamental to this guide, is that taking steps to promote linguistic equality is not classed as discrimination. “The adoption of special measures in favour of regional or minority languages aimed at promoting equality between the users of these languages and the rest of the population or which take due account of their specific conditions is not considered to be an act of discrimination against the users of more widely-used languages.” Article 7, The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages 1992

5.4 The UK Government therefore understands the need to adopt special measures in favour of minority languages in order to promote linguistic equality. This does not disadvantage the speakers of more widely used languages. “…considering that the right to use a regional or minority language in private and public life, is an inalienable right conforming to the principles embodied in the United Nations International Covenant on civil and political rights, and according to the spirit of the Council of Europe Convention for the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms.” (Preamble, The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages 1992.) The Charter and the Welsh Language Act both provide a context for setting linguistic conditions when recruiting, though neither excludes the need to show that these are justifiable under the Equality Act 2010

A ton more about it in 5.5 onwards in that doc if you want to read it. But it's not discrimination it appears.

<mic dropped>

[David71]

My claim for discrimination is on age which is a protected characteristic and not 'language ability'.
Anyone 45'ish or older would have been hard pushed to find any Welsh being offered in school (my school didn't have any Welsh lessons at all) while in the last 20 years it has become compulsory from Year 1 to Year 11.
In my mind this is indirect age discrimination.

As far as the role goes, Welsh language skills are completely non-required; I know this as I've worked on similar projects and the developers aren't based in Wales and develop using English documentation, English language meetings etc. etc. The agency have only put forward cv's of welsh speakers and if they don't pass the interview then they'll put forward the non-Welsh speakers; I'm a 'big boy' but find the WAG attitude to Welsh to be one of my 'triggers' .