EU Referendum: Do we enough information to take the correct decision?

[vetran]

When its an assertion that EU migration is a net benefit to the UK economy and you still don't believe our propaganda. Then it comes down to something else. Something much darker, maybe you don't believe wage stagnation at the bottom due to over supply is a good thing for us rich people. Don't worry I'll just call you a racist as that means in my twisted mind I have won.

My experience of grown up debates on the issue is the fast start falling apart when the outers start talking about Romanian Cornish mafia gangs and hordes of pick pocketing migrants welsh coming to sweep the land and take all psychocandys JSA.

FTFY

[DodgyAgent]

How is people coming to Britain to "get a job" different from labour moving to areas that are doing well in the US? It's the same thing. If we're going to talk about the US perhaps the lesson should be that when you're a rich country trying to prevent an influx of foreign workers from your poorer neighbours is futile. We don't have anything like the problem with illegals that they have, and their only answer (Trump notwithstanding) seems to be to make them all legal.

It may be a bit of a wishy washy liberal ideal, but part of the aim of the EU is to even out the prosperity in Europe, which is of course why we as a rich country pay in more than we get out. That is ultimately the best and probably the only way to deal with the issue of migration.

With an abundance of cheap labour from abroad we can keep wages low and forget about our own unemployed. In the USA it is all spectrums of the working chain that are migrating to where the work is. This includes stem skilled people. I am sure there are plenty of anecdotes about Eastern EU IT people working in the UK but they are a tiny proportion. Instead we have Polish and Spanish University graduates working in Starbucks who should really be working for a blue chip graduate intake. Our own non degree workers cannot compete and instead drop down the skills ladder.
To overcome the problem the EU has created EURES which is run by Marianne Thyssen. It employs 900 advisors who are supposed to be getting the unemployed youth of the EU into jobs and stimulating high end skills mobility. Instead it is a support mechanism for the Junket lifestyle of Thyssen and her boss Cristalina Georgieva who is up for a top job at the UN. They tinker around with making a few placements here and there but completely fail in what they are supposed to be doing.
They have managed to get just about every job center position onto their website which they think is good enough but they have not checked whether the employers are prepared to hire from abroad. If you take a look at Thyssen's CV you will see a serial bureaucrat without an ounce of commercial experience. Instead she simply junkets around Europe blathering platitudes about "social responsibility" diversity and sustainability.
The trouble with all of this is that everything is one way. If we had workers migrating abroad in the EU in equal proportions then fine. Right now we are getting people that EU countries don't want or need.

[DodgyAgent]

When its a proven fact that EU migration is a net benefit to the UK economy and you still don't want it to happen. Then it comes down to something else. Something much darker.

My experience of grown up debates on the issue is the fast start falling apart when the outers start talking about Romanian mafia gangs and hordes of pick pocketing migrants coming to sweep the land and take all psychocandys JSA and all the usal FUD. Because talking about numbers, and figures doesn't help them. Because by any measure they contribute and more than cover themselves being here.

The outters can't come up with one rational view point on the issue. The best stab is a "drain" on services. It quickly falls apart when you take into account they aren't accessing many services outside of the usual School and GP visits and the UK has structural problem with these things well before any form of migration is taken into account. Putting the blame totally on piss poor UK governments you guys want to give more power!!!!

Your experience of grown up debates is that you have clearly never contributed to one. Judging by the assumptions you have wrongly made (did I say anything about Romanian mafia?) you wouldn't even recognise a "grown up debate". Did you know that schools now employ translators to help those children who speak English only as a second language - Polish is everywhere. The structural problems that the increasing population is creating are not being dealt with.
It may be that migrants contribute to the tax intake of the Uk but they also allow us to escape our obligations to our own people. We could integrate the entire working population of Poland which would be a huge hike in GDP , we could then do the same with India or Pakistan. It is not about the money it is about looking after our own people first (all of them).

[dx4100]

Well you smear people without any evidence.

Coming from the Out campaign talking about migration that is a truly hilarious comment to make

[dx4100]

Your experience of grown up debates is that you have clearly never contributed to one. Judging by the assumptions you have wrongly made (did I say anything about Romanian mafia?) you wouldn't even recognise a "grown up debate". Did you know that schools now employ translators to help those children who speak English only as a second language - Polish is everywhere. The structural problems that the increasing population is creating are not being dealt with.
It may be that migrants contribute to the tax intake of the Uk but they also allow us to escape our obligations to our own people. We could integrate the entire working population of Poland which would be a huge hike in GDP , we could then do the same with India or Pakistan. It is not about the money it is about looking after our own people first (all of them).

Thank you for proving my point...

Like I say if you keep poking the out campaigners they soon drop into racist rhetoric....

So when does someone become our own ? First generation migrant? Second? Third... Or are you just talking about white christain English types

[original PM]

If it was a Facebook thread:

Can you explain where the brexit campaign has said they will kick all existing immigrants out?

It is about control going forward not retrospectively trying to remove people.

Also given Spain's economy is tanking do you really think that they would kick out people who own homes and therefore employ maids, gardeners, tradesman?

Would they kick out the people who will eat out in the restaurants and drink in the bars.

These people have money to spend only an idiot would try and get rid of them.

[DodgyAgent]

Thank you for proving my point...

Like I say if you keep poking the out campaigners they soon drop into racist rhetoric....

So when does someone become our own ? First generation migrant? Second? Third... Or are you just talking about white christain English types

British citizens and UK passport holders

[dx4100]

These people have money to spend only an idiot would try and get rid of them.

I love it when the out campaign call themselves idiots

[dx4100]

British citizens and UK passport holders

So on EU exit day, what you going to do with everyone else who doesn't tick those boxes ?

You are saying they are not our own and you don't want to help them... SO what you going to do with them when they want a school place or to use the NHS ?

[DodgyAgent]

So on EU exit day, what you going to do with everyone else who doesn't tick those boxes ?

You are saying they are not our own and you don't want to help them... SO what you going to do with them when they want a school place or to use the NHS ?

I think they should be sent round to see you which will encourage them to leave.