EU Referendum: Do we enough information to take the correct decision?

[rl4engc]

Found this for you:

Ten new laws that come into force in April 2016 - and how they affect you | Home News | News | The Independent

Very good, and if I disagree with any of those laws, currently I can a) Write to my MP and ask him to raise the issue of amending them in parliament or b) Vote for another party that promises to amend or remove them.

If it's an EU directive, drafted into law "in perpetuity" by a commission of unelected twunts, my options if I disagree with those laws are... ....

Oh, apart from take part in civil unrest.

[VectraMan]

Very good, and if I disagree with any of those laws, currently I can a) Write to my MP and ask him to raise the issue of amending them in parliament or b) Vote for another party that promises to amend or remove them.

If it's an EU directive, drafted into law "in perpetuity" by a commission of unelected twunts, my options if I disagree with those laws are... ....

Oh, apart from take part in civil unrest.

Completely not true. EU laws are made by the parliament made up of people we vote for. You have an MEP you can write to in the same way, and you have the option of voting for a different party that promises to amend or remove them.

Kippers go on and on claiming the EU is undemocratic, but never ever come up with any facts to back that up. Perhaps you should spend 30 seconds learning about the EU?

EUROPA - European Parliament - The EU institutions explained

[The_Equalizer]

EUROPA - European Parliament - The EU institutions explained

From the above:

Passing EU laws, together with the Council of the EU, based on European Commission proposals.

Can you explain to how the combination of these three work?

[darmstadt]

Kippers go on and on claiming the EU is undemocratic, but never ever come up with any facts to back that up. Perhaps you should spend 30 seconds learning about the EU?

I wouldn't bother, Brexit'ers don't believe in facts nor do they want to research them in case it upsets them

[rl4engc]

Completely not true. EU laws are made by the parliament made up of people we vote for. You have an MEP you can write to in the same way, and you have the option of voting for a different party that promises to amend or remove them.

EUROPA - European Parliament - The EU institutions explained

No, MEP's pay lipservice, but the real power in implementing EU law is with the unelected EU Commission in a sort of "first to put the gun down loses" system.

"The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation, and it implements the decisions of the European Parliament and the Council of the EU."

[VectraMan]

From the above:

Passing EU laws, together with the Council of the EU, based on European Commission proposals.

Can you explain to how the combination of these three work?

I can tell you that the Council of Europe is the national democratically elected leaders; the European Commission are people appointed by the national democratically elected leaders and approved by the parliament, and the European Parliament are elected directly by us. There's nothing undemocratic about it.

This is our Commissioner by the way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonath...ll_of_Oareford

Chosen by (and answerable to) David Cameron.

[jamesbrown]

Completely not true. EU laws are made by the parliament made up of people we vote for.

This is a gross over-simplification and entirely misses the point (it's inaccurate too, as the Commission has the legislative initiative, although the Parliament can ask for a proposal to be submitted by the Commission). There's a tendency on both sides of this argument to suspend rational thought for an Aunt Sally, but particularly the Bremainers. The argument isn't that the process is entirely undemocratic, only that it is insufficiently democratic. The Commission proposes new legislation for adoption by the Parliament, it doesn't come from MEPs. In accepting (or rejecting) that legislation, our MEPs have only a very diluted level of control. Democracy is weakened when significant legislation becomes too removed from the ability of national parliaments (and, hence, national peoples) to accept, reject, or modify it. Some legislation inevitably makes sense at a large scale. Much of the legislation adopted by the European Parliament does not. The EU is democracy-light.

[VectraMan]

No, MEP's pay lipservice, but the real power in implementing EU law is with the unelected EU Commission in a sort of "first to put the gun down loses" system.

"The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation, and it implements the decisions of the European Parliament and the Council of the EU."

Nigel Farage plays lipservice? Well probably, yes. We vote for MEPs so if they're useless then we ought to vote for some better MEPs. Fortunately we have that right; it's called democracy.

Who implements decisions of the UK parliament? The civil service for the most part. Maybe you want a referendum on getting rid of the unelected civil service?

[jamesbrown]

I wouldn't bother, Brexit'ers don't believe in facts nor do they want to research them in case it upsets them

Some Bremainers don't have the self-confidence to debate the issues, preferring instead the vacuous one-liner or the comfort blanket of the ad hominem. Bless.

[rl4engc]

I can tell you that the Council of Europe is the national democratically elected leaders; the European Commission are people appointed by the national democratically elected leaders and approved by the parliament, and the European Parliament are elected directly by us. There's nothing undemocratic about it.

There's the problem right there.