EU Referendum: Do we enough information to take the correct decision?

[AtW]

Nonsense. To begin with, the net contribution is far too large

Why is it too large?



Source: • EU budget contributions by Member State 2015 | Statistics

So UK contributes a LOT less than Germany, and less than France.

Italy contributes almost as much as UK.

I'd say UK's share of contributions is TOO LOW. It should be on par with France at least, and Germany contributing too much - they should get hefty "rebate".

[DodgyAgent]

Why is it too large?



Source: • EU budget contributions by Member State 2015 | Statistics

So UK contributes a LOT less than Germany, and less than France.

Italy contributes almost as much as UK.

I'd say UK's share of contributions is TOO LOW. It should be on par with France at least, and Germany contributing too much - they should get hefty "rebate".

I find it quite amusing how people pick contexts to justify their positions. It doesn't actually matter what the germans or French pay and what is fair or not fair. it is the fact that we are paying at all and just what we are actually paying for that matters. The same thing with the EU. The remains seem to think that those that want to leave the EU are anti the EU when in fact what most of us feel s that we want out of the version of the EU that we have. Why is the current EU the assumed default representation of what the EU should be about. Its a bit like saying to a contractor who is asking for more money. it doesn't matter what other people are being paid it is what the individual contractor wants to be paid to persuade him to take the gig. Other earnings are a factor of course but people try to introduce rules when no rules actually exist.

[jamesbrown]

Why is it too large?

Because the EU is a worthless bureaucracy that doesn't warrant any more spending than is absolutely necessary to support trans-boundary cooperation (that isn't better organised at a global level, such as financial regulation). There isn't much regulation within this category, other than environmental (i.e. rivers and seas are regional, they don't respect borders). It's inherently difficult to know what that might cost, but I'd guess on the order of hundreds of millions, certainly not billions.

It's pointless making a comparison with Germany on the basis of net contributions to the EU budget. Germany has gained massively from the single currency, at the direct expense of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece etc. That trade surplus needs to be made up somewhere.

[DodgyAgent]

No, the net amount is actually negative because being member of the club gives a lot of perks that help make money in EU.



"In March 2016 the value of exports (EU and Non-EU) increased to £24.9 billion, and imports (EU and Non-EU) increased to £39.8 billion, compared with last month. Consequently the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £14.9 billion."

£25 bln in ONE MONTH of exports: https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statisti...Pages/OTS.aspx

Who are the EU to define what our "perks are"? Those of us who want Brexit want top leave and renegotiate whatever terms we want. Why do we have to accept rules?

[AtW]

I find it quite amusing how people pick contexts to justify their positions. It doesn't actually matter what the germans or French pay and what is fair or not fair.

I disagree.

Fairness is very important, it's ingrained in British character.

Fact is that UK pays a LOT less than Germany, and substantially less than France, even though I'd say all these 3 countries should pay about the same.

UK got a fooking awesome deal in the club, very unfair one, but hey, it got it - might as well keep it.

[AtW]

Who are the EU to define what our "perks are"? Those of us who want Brexit want top leave and renegotiate whatever terms we want. Why do we have to accept rules?

Big free trade block and market as big as USA.

Britain won't get better terms in EU - it's already got very unfairly good terms as illustrated above with actual real numbers.

[AtW]

It's pointless making a comparison with Germany on the basis of net contributions to the EU budget. Germany has gained massively from the single currency, at the direct expense of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece etc. That trade surplus needs to be made up somewhere.

Germany gained massively because they make great products that are in demand all over the world, not just Greece LOL, it's a tiny market for Germany, not pain than gain.

[unixman]

I'm voting out due to concerns about democracy (which I don't wish to argue about here). But most people are considering other issues, economic, social and so on. To make those considerations, no, to answer the OP, there isn't enough information out there. But this might be nobody's fault: the info simply doesn't exist.

Leaflets from the "in" campaign are just listicles of throw-away headlines with a few words under each, and no background or argument provided. Typically a headline will say "if we leave, we'll no longer have access to <some element which we might well, in fact, continue to have access to>". Often this will be attributed to some important person ...whose personal wealth or status sometimes turns out to be dependent on continued EU membership. I guess that the EU itself has not said what will happen from their point of view, which makes it hard for the "in" campaign to flesh out their arguments. The "out" campaign are actually quite similar. They also suffer a lack of information and probably for the same reasons. They don't know. However, they seem to stick more to what is definite, rather than the wild assertions of the Remainers.

One thing that seems to becoming true is what Ian Duncan Smith said. You might not like the man, but he said last week that the EU is serving the elites and the wealthy very well, while doing the opposite for the working classes. This argument appears to hold some water. The upper/upper middle classes get cheap, hard working servants, while working class wages are suppressed - excellent news for big corporations like those who have made attractive statements about Britain remaining in the EU. Trebles all round?

[AtW]

One thing that seems to becoming true is what Ian Duncan Smith said. You might not like the man, but he said last week that the EU is serving the elites and the wealthy very well, while doing the opposite for the working classes.

A millionaire Ian Duncan Smith says this in country that serves the elites and the wealthy very well

Yeah, it was evil EU that creates British offshores, it was evil EU that created non-dom status for the worlds richest elite to be in Britain, it was EU stopping Britain from introducing minimum hourly wage etc etc.

It's ze evil Germany who forced UK to have 70 mph limit on motorways, and evil French prevented UK from building high speed railways, vote leave to fix all that!!!

[AtW]

I'm voting out due to concerns about democracy