11 dead in French shooting

[Whorty]

God doesn't exist. Religion is made up by the few to control the many. Full stop.

Phew, I'm glad we finally sorted that one out. Someone should phone the papers, they'll want to know the debate is over.

So you're saying that god does exist? Really? There is no proof today, and there has never been any proof in all of history, that god exists. Yet millions of people over the centuries have died because of this stupid lie that people believe.

Humanity needs to grow up and stop relying on imaginary dieties then maybe the world will be a safer and happier place.

[vetran]

Provocation can be anything that someone chooses to be provoked by. I may be provoked by your opinion simply because I do not agree with it. It does not matter how much one is provoked resorting to violence is wrong no matter what level the provocation is. In the west we are civilised enough to recognise it and not tolerate the liberal left view that makes excuses because someone "was provoked".

Satirising religious or any sort of bigotry and lets face it religion is bigotry is the best way of dealing with it.

There is a difference between provocation and you not liking something you see.

provocation legal definition of provocation


Provocation may be seen as a contributory factor in law.
And yes we should all rise above provocation but we as a society should require people to not poke the bear when there is little social gain.

[FatLazyContractor]

So you're saying that god does exist? Really? There is no proof today, and there has never been any proof in all of history, that god exists. Yet millions of people over the centuries have died because of this stupid lie that people believe.

Humanity needs to grow up and stop relying on imaginary dieties then maybe the world will be a safer and happier place.

As someone said, Suity worship is the only true worship.

[Whorty]

If a simple cartoon is a threat to your religion, then what does it say about the value of that religion? These extremists want to create a new violent feared version of Islam, but they can never do that with reason so they can only do it with violence and fear. Their religion is worthless .... even a cartoon is a threat to it!

Je Suis Charlie

[xoggoth]

If a simple cartoon is a threat to your religion, then what does it say about the value of that religion? These extremists want to create a new violent feared version of Islam, but they can never do that with reason so they can only do it with violence and fear. Their religion is worthless .... even a cartoon is a threat to it!?

Well said. Why would such retaliation be needed anyway? If there really is an Allah, he will punish us unbelievers and blasphemers in due time anyway. What is a human lifetime to an eternal god?

That really is one of many fundamental problems with so much religious belief, Islam in particular. God is supposed to be an almighty, all-knowing, eternal, infinitely wise being and yet, according to the supposedly sacred texts, he acts like a little schoolboy obsessed with trivial things.

[AtW]

God is supposed to be an almighty, all-knowing, eternal, infinitely wise being and yet, according to the supposedly sacred texts, he acts like a little schoolboy obsessed with trivial things.

If he is almighty then he can also act like a little schoolboy. Try harder...

[Paddy]

If a simple cartoon is a threat to your religion, then what does it say about the value of that religion? These extremists want to create a new violent feared version of Islam, but they can never do that with reason so they can only do it with violence and fear. Their religion is worthless .... even a cartoon is a threat to it!

Je Suis Charlie

There is no moderate Islam. Please read Shira Law

[SueEllen]

There is no moderate Islam. Please read Shira Law

Followers of any religion can be on the scale of moderate to nutters.

[xoggoth]

Followers of any religion can be on the scale of moderate to nutters

Quite true, Islam is a normal distribution like any other belief and for that reason we need to avoid targeting all Muslims. However, there is no getting away from the fact that, compared to present day Christianity, it is a normal distribution greatly slewed towards religious conservatism. Look at Islamic and Muslim states around the world. Islamism, the political belief, is not compatible with Western ideals.

Look at the facts and it is the actions of Islamists, like the attack on Lee Rigby, that cause spikes in attacks on Muslims, not the sayings of obscure right wingers. It is appalling that, for example, Muslim women are abused just for wearing a veil but it is the continual failure of our authorities to tackle the real problems that has let this resentment grow.

Nothing that unusual about Choudary's viewpoint here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...n-9965400.html

[mudskipper]

Islamism, the political belief, is not compatible with Western ideals.

It seems probable that those who've chosen to live in the west have a different outlook than those in predominantly Muslim countries, so it's difficult to gauge the attitude of most Muslims by those we encounter in our daily lives (who have, in my limited experience, been absolutely reasonable people happy to discuss their beliefs when asked in a respectful way). I wouldn't choose to go and live in a country that went against my strongheld beliefs.

Should the West be interfering with other nations business? Isn't that just another form of imperialism? It's difficult to see stuff we perceive as 'wrong' and ignore it, but is the problem our assumption that our values are better than theirs?

It seems 100% non-negotiable to me that (as an example) women should not be treated as property, but I don't know where our desire to make the world a better place oversteps into imposing our ideals and values upon others who have different values that they believe are just as legitimate.

One could suggest that our wish that others live by our (in our opinion superior) values isn't that different to their attempt to impose their (in their opinion superior) values upon us.

It certainly ain't straightforward...