So...anybody ask for any of this?

[tarbera]

FTAOD, I don't doubt his or the rest of the board's motives for one moment. It's a shame that is not reciprocal but like him, I am my own man and I am grown up enough to realise that even if people disagree with me, that is no reason to discredit them. Indeed, I have defended him in this very thread as you are doing now.

Once again, no one is trying to gag anyone, quite the reverse; we are asking them to speak. Contrary to your bleat, I am no one's leader nor do I have any interest in portraying myself as such, I am simply looking out for my interests and engaging with my peers both here and over there.

Until I see you both in the same room I am not convinced you both are the same person

[tractor]

...

Until I see you both in the same room I am not convinced you both are the same person

I could say the same about you and the other Chuckle Brother.

But that would insinuate that IPSE suffers from the same sockie infestation as CUK and in that matter, I could not possibly comment.

[malvolio]

and Mr Gilmour

Mr Gilmour advises governments and multi-nationals and has done for 20-odd years. I think he's pretty competent

[malvolio]

For those of us with experience of how government really works, that is rather scary. A half baked idea will very quickly becoming fully formed as civil servants rapidly fill in any gaps with the things they want....

Giving them an empty idea to expand upon gives them carte blanche to create something you will utterly hate knowing that you can't reject everything in their plan...

You have no idea how it works, do you? "Half-baked"? It's not even a list of ingredients yet.

Then you wonder why some of us lose patience trying to explain the point.


(BTW, I've worked with several Departments in the past, most recently doing some strategic consultancy work with the Home Office, and outside the day job am currently working with the Cabinet Office on something with a national impact. So at least one of understands how they turn concept into policy into deliverable)

[eek]

You have no idea how it works, do you? "Half-baked"? It's not even a list of ingredients yet.

Then you wonder why some of us lose patience trying to explain the point.


(BTW, I've worked with several Departments in the past, most recently doing some strategic consultancy work with the Home Office, and outside the day job am currently working with the Cabinet Office on something with a national impact. So at least one of understands how they turn concept into policy into deliverable)

So you want to play a game of willy waving.

[tractor]

...

You have no idea how it works, do you? "Half-baked"? It's not even a list of ingredients yet.

Then you wonder why some of us lose patience trying to explain the point.


(BTW, I've worked with several Departments in the past, most recently doing some strategic consultancy work with the Home Office, and outside the day job am currently working with the Cabinet Office on something with a national impact. So at least one of understands how they turn concept into policy into deliverable)

To be fair, you have to realise that for other interested parties it is rather more than that. It would be unrealistic to expect that they have no influence over the people that IPSE is attempting to influence. If they propose something that is either controversial or detrimental to us, we (not necessarily IPSE) will be on the back foot because anything that comes to pass is likely to affect all contractors alike. Yes, we can attack their proposals whether we are IPSE members or not. But equally, we can help to shape IPSEs (if we are members) if we are allowed.

[tractor]

...

So you want to play a game of willy waving.

Well, this is General

[mudskipper]

Mr Gilmour advises governments and multi-nationals and has done for 20-odd years. I think he's pretty competent

I'm sure he is. But he has also come across as pretty arrogant.

[DaveB]

You have no idea how it works, do you? "Half-baked"? It's not even a list of ingredients yet.

Then you wonder why some of us lose patience trying to explain the point.


(BTW, I've worked with several Departments in the past, most recently doing some strategic consultancy work with the Home Office, and outside the day job am currently working with the Cabinet Office on something with a national impact. So at least one of understands how they turn concept into policy into deliverable)

The point to make here is that it hasn't, up until now, been explained. All that has been put forward is what was in the manifesto and a good deal of waffle on the forum. It's taken a good deal of argument and rancour to get to the point where a clear understanding was possible. At no point did anyone from IPSE say anything like, to quote another post over there,

..."IPSE are not offering anything [concessions] at this stage, it is an opening position to stimulate discussion. We will consult with members and keep them informed of any changes in this position."

That would have done the job, end of discussion. Instead we have pages of political waffle, insults and condescension....

A straight answer to a straight question, and everyone would have been happy.

[Goatfell]

Mr Gilmour advises governments and multi-nationals and has done for 20-odd years. I think he's pretty competent

So does the esteemed Mr Blair.

Just sayin' like. . .