So...anybody ask for any of this?

[tractor]

...

The point to make here is that it hasn't, up until now, been explained. All that has been put forward is what was in the manifesto and a good deal of waffle on the forum. It's taken a good deal of argument and rancour to get to the point where a clear understanding was possible. At no point did anyone from IPSE say anything like, to quote another post over there,



A straight answer to a straight question, and everyone would have been happy.

And anyone who knows would agree that was exactly my (and others) opening gambit.

[eek]

I'm sure he is. But he has also come across as pretty arrogant.

My guess would be that it goes with the job and territory...

[TheFaQQer]

You have no idea how it works, do you? "Half-baked"? It's not even a list of ingredients yet.

I suspect that the IPSE ideal is the top, and what we'll get stuck with is the bottom

[tractor]

...

I suspect that the IPSE ideal is the top, and what we'll get stuck with is the bottom

Didn't BP make a thread about that earlier?

[PhilipRoss]

Well I think you may mean me in your post. I don't think it is flawed at all. But it is true the primary goal is to given some recognition to the freelancing sector. The status quo isn't working. And it isn't just about IT freelancing but for people in other sectors too. The key work in the paper for labour is that it would be optional and work off the model currently in place for community interest companies for being a limited company but registering as a freelancer. Ipse's have come separetly to their own conclusions I think.

With abandonment of the bet tests freelancing is on the agenda and all the political parties and the industry is thinking about what comes next.

I think your concerns are valid and need to be addressed and debated. The strength of these and other forums is the ability to engage in constructive debate. I am not in ipse though but it is ipse and others who would fight the corner for you.

As for the flc I think success comes one step at a time. If it was a piece of software I'd see your concerns as the security risks and I'd seek to tighten them up, I wouldn't ditch the product because it could be hacked. I'd make it so it couldn't be hacked.

That REALLY worries me.

It's a recipe for the agency regs to be changed again to insist that people use FLC's, then the rules, tax treatment and protections for FLC's can be changed independently from Ltd companies. Bye bye any concept of being a true business for very many contractors and hello complicated re-incorporations if a business model changes to say supplying hardware in large quantities.
The smartarse that proposed that has absolutely NO concept how risky that is, I can see it being another total clusterfvck the same as the "entirely voluntary" Opt Out. It will be a monstrous own goal.

NI and Income Tax merger, seems unlikely to be something that a government will want in reality since they can hide tax policy in NI while lowering Income Tax, unless of course it's introduced for the Contractor subset in which case you can expect the rules to be far from favourable.

Those clowns at IPSE do NOT represent me nor do I recognise their manifesto.

[PhilipRoss]

Meanwhile only yesterday this Philip Ross character from IPSE posted another article:

2014-11-12 Why the UK should form a Freelancer Limited Company



Seems to me that PCG has been completely hijacked and subverted by left-wing activists

That philip ross is me, thanks for the mention. I am not a member of ipse though, but I was a founding member of the pcg many years ago

[tractor]

...

Well I think you may mean me in your post. I don't think it is flawed at all. But it is true the primary goal is to given some recognition to the freelancing sector. The status quo isn't working. And it isn't just about IT freelancing but for people in other sectors too. The key work in the paper for labour is that it would be optional and work off the model currently in place for community interest companies for being a limited company but registering as a freelancer. Ipse's have come separetly to their own conclusions I think.

With abandonment of the bet tests freelancing is on the agenda and all the political parties and the industry is thinking about what comes next.

I think your concerns are valid and need to be addressed and debated. The strength of these and other forums is the ability to engage in constructive debate. I am not in ipse though but it is ipse and others who would fight the corner for you.

As for the flc I think success comes one step at a time. If it was a piece of software I'd see your concerns as the security risks and I'd seek to tighten them up, I wouldn't ditch the product because it could be hacked. I'd make it so it couldn't be hacked.

That's what Bill Gates said and here we are 25 years later still patching every version of Windows every single week.

History tells us that Labour and Optional is an oxymoron.

[eek]

That's what Bill Gates said and here we are 25 years later still patching every version of Windows every single week.

History tells us that Labour and Optional is an oxymoron.

Nope history tells us that given two options people will endeavour to make you pick the option that makes their life easier and will move on to the next person if you don't...

[tractor]

...

Nope history tells us that given two options people will endeavour to make you pick the option that makes their life easier and will move on to the next person if you don't...

That too, more importantly!

Labour should be more worried about protecting those that are forced into 'self employment' by those employers looking to save every penny at the expense of those that have little choice. That was always going to be the next thing after IR35 once companies had their eyes opened to the possibilities by Darling and his darlings.

While they are at it, perhaps they could look at zero hours contracts. Rather than looking to help those that don't need any.

I onder who alerted PhilipRoss to this thread. Not that I mind him joining, we get the opportunity to question the rationale for the proposal now I find it quite telling though, that there is just a little sales pitch tagged on to the end of the thread whiilst it contains a number of very real questions. I would be quite interested to hear what the author of the report says about those?

[cojak]

So...anybody ask for any of this?

I'm sure he is. But he has also come across as pretty arrogant.

Without a good word to say about anyone. And you can't put on your ignore list because he's a mod!

Oh, wait....