Alex Mann - I will never deal with again

[malvolio]

Very sorry to hear about that. But I reckon you can still salvage something if you go in and do the 2 months contract. Once you're on site you'll be able to talk them into further work on terms that suit you better.

The only odd thing is that you already knew the client and got handed the project on a plate; but you not only involved an agency but let them do all the negotiating on detail (or lack of it). I'd be wanting to cut out as many variables as possible.

He (she?) also missed the key point. AMS are not an agency, they are an outsourced Human Remains department, mostly tied to CapGemini. Treat them as such and it all becomes easy. Their people are not agents and have no idea what a freelance contractor really is.

[BrilloPad]

Well, here goes - first post, got a gig to go back to the worlds biggest IT project - I have previously done work for them and didn't have to bid for the work, and initially sold as 3 months + possible extensions worth of project work. Great - local to home (N.Wales) as such and been working away for the past year+. Turned down a contract in the W.Midlands for 6 months on the strength of this.

Anyway, to say that Alex Mann are incompetent is complimenting them.

One week lost while they said I had to have a Basic Security Check, and I have SC anyway, one week lost because they had the spec wrong - told it was 1 weekend in 3 and then found out it was more like 3 in 4 so I wanted a higher rate - and another week+ lost because they are basically incompetent.

Monday I was assured that everything was OK - rate agreed etc... Served 1 weeks notice on my existing client (which they new was coming) - all set for Tuesday start - lunchtime today (Friday) - I had to phone the Agent to get some info - she casually turns round and tells me that the hours have been capped at 44 per week - fair enough, not a problem with that - and then told me that the duration has been capped to 2 months max! Tough - take it or leave it. Turns out that at the time of our conversation the role had not even been signed off by the relevant areas

So I have served notice on my current contract in London - was told there was work until next April if I wanted it- they have now filled the position - and I am looking to either having no revenue stream on Tuesday and looking for work, or starting on the new contract and waiting until January to try and find another gig - talk about Hobsons Choice!!

So - has anybody else got a bad experience with AMS. How can an agency tote themselves as being independent when they actually email using the end clients @ address. Have I got any leg to stand on at all.

Any comments, experiences or advice most welcome

Cheers

Lawrenso

Got to the papers. The chap who runs AMS is James Caan? From Dragons Den? I reckon the sun will pay squillions for a story like that...

[arthur_cider]

Lawrenso, take it on the chin mate and move on

[b0redom]

Sounds like a kick in the nuts, but my general rule of thumb is NEVER believe anything I'm told by an agent until it's on a signed contract.

[lawrenso]

Hi Peeps,

not ignoring you - my last post hasn't been authorised by a Moderator yet - hopefully this one will be.

Cheers

Steve

[configman]

The client I'm with loses contractors at extension time because Alex Mann cannot get the paper work sorted on time. I recently stopped worked when an extension was due but did not arrive til a week later. Good job I stopped as Alex Mann had amended the T&C's without letting me know so before I returned had them amended back - for example they modified the professional working day from 8hrs to infinity.

Alex Mann also use the Clients domain for emailing when asking for references so be wary of that - it is not the client asking for them but Alex Mann.

[Denny]

He (she?) also missed the key point. AMS are not an agency, they are an outsourced Human Remains department, mostly tied to CapGemini. Treat them as such and it all becomes easy. Their people are not agents and have no idea what a freelance contractor really is.

Why is it a key point, Malvolio?

Any organisation that acts as an intermediary 'employment business' is essentially no different than those who are independent EBs rather than an RPO. They are all the same, except that AM can block the efforts of other independent EBs who want to source a contractor from plonking their CV on the hiring managers desk.

Also, you make the point that 'agents' (not agents, I'm afraid, but recruiters) have no idea what a freelance contractor really is! Do independent EB recruiters know? I found that most of them certainly don't. Some have never even heard of Ir35 much less know its impact on their ability to source the best candidates or set up the contract properly.

There's only one thing worse than an independent EB acting like an indpendent EB, and that is an RPO (that still acts in the capacity of an EB incidentally, read the paperwork) with all the same bad traits of an independent EB. Or worse still, a properly staffed consultancy that behaves toward sub-contractors they do take on occasionally behaving and relating to contractors exactly as if they were an EB recruiter, but is not one and is therefore outside the parameters of the EAS legislation for payment protection purposes whether you've opted out or in (irrelevant in these cases). I have had the misfortune of been of the receiving end of both of these too.

So you haven't got a key point at all. The reason EBs are despised by contractors (those who can see them for what they are, that is) is because they behave the way they do and are essentially all the same - dependent on a sales model to source flexi workers, not because they admit to being independent EBs or because they call themselves recruitment agencies or whatever. So not being an independent EB but behaving as though they are is not going to make a jot of difference.

My experience of AM is this:

Got phoned by AM this summer for a role with a Telecomms co. Recruiter told me that I was suitable for a senior level role and wanted to represent me for it. Also told me that I was not suitable for a more junior role on the same programme he was handling but one I had applied to via another independent EB in Germany.

Discovered that AM (being an RPO) was able to block the efforts of the EB in Germany from sourcing me for the more junior role because AM were the EBs client not the end-client Telecomms giant. After a few days asked for status update from AM on the more senior role. Told client was reviewing. Finally, discovered no interview set up - thought this was surprising as I was a perfect fit for role. When I questioned AM they admitted they hadn't forwarded by CV in the first place to the hiring client becuase I was not a good cultural fit - therefore, effectively blocking me from two roles with the same programme. The fact that the client hadn't even met me or interviewed me didn't seem to matter. I also spoke to the end-client and plonked my CV on her desk but AM got to her as well and my application got no-where. Just as well really, because, according the to programme director who took a great deal of trouble to drop me an e-mail personally to explain the situation,. the role apparently went out to someone else at lower cost and better cultural fit......

About two weeks later I saw the same role being advertised again on jobserve. So effectively, AM and the end client were both lying to me.

AM are liars and shoudl be avoided. Always ask independent EBs if AM are their own end client (even though they will probably tell you in the first instance that the organisation end client is the organisation they are sourcing for, as you might expect to attract better candidates). If it is, and AM are the filter to the hirer, just don't apply for the role.

[NotAllThere]

Sounds like a kick in the nuts, but my general rule of thumb is NEVER believe anything I'm told by an agent until it's on a signed contract.

Surely you mean "NEVER believe anything I'm told by an agent."

cultural fit

[TheFaQQer]

So effectively, AM and the end client were both lying to me.

An agency lying to you, whatever next.

[Denny]

I wish people would treat the Business/Contractor and Legal sites as forums for putting up constructive comments that can add some value by assisting other readers.

Banter and silly trite remarks are for the General forum.