State of the Market

[oliverson]

Well, this old ticker's still coining 700/day.

Seem to recall you posting recently you'd just landed another contract, rate starting with a 6.

[sadkingbilly]

Seem to recall you posting recently you'd just landed another contract, rate starting with a 6.

ok, - 685.
now, is that closer to 7 or 6??
depends on your point of view.
a miserable, whining. hard done by person might have the latter view, so as to attempt to denigrate the position of someone more fortunate, but i'm not one of those. fortunately

[ShandyDrinker]

ok, - 685.
now, is that closer to 7 or 6??
depends on your point of view.
a miserable, whining. hard done by person might have the latter view, so as to attempt to denigrate the position of someone more fortunate, but i'm not one of those. fortunately

Your posts do mark you out as being rather insufferable.

For many of us who have worked as contractors for a long time, it's f***ing hard when you've managed to land contracts for the best part of 20 years and then all of a sudden it's nigh on impossible to find work. On a personal level it's been way worse than 2008-2010 so far, and definitely worse than covid.

It's great for you that you're fighting off work. Congratulations, you're the forum hero.

Your niche may well be doing fine right now, but it may well see a downturn too at some point.

A little humility and empathy goes a long way, especially for people struggling in this market, myself included.

[malvolio]

Your posts do mark you out as being rather insufferable.

For many of us who have worked as contractors for a long time, it's f***ing hard when you've managed to land contracts for the best part of 20 years and then all of a sudden it's nigh on impossible to find work. On a personal level it's been way worse than 2008-2010 so far, and definitely worse than covid.

It's great for you that you're fighting off work. Congratulations, you're the forum hero.

Your niche may well be doing fine right now, but it may well see a downturn too at some point.

A little humility and empathy goes a long way, especially for people struggling in this market, myself included.

If you want to waste a little time for entertainment's sake, find one post from SKB's 2000-odd that actually offers usable advice...

[SussexSeagull]

I am sure some people with fabled niche skills are still doing well but there are just too many people who have found contracts easily or relatively easily over, in some cases, several decades not finding work anymore to suggest it is a personal failing or skills going out of date.

In demand skills have constantly changed and most of us were able to keep up. it really isn't a new thing. We are witnessing an existential change in the market,

[ShandyDrinker]

I am sure some people with fabled niche skills are still doing well but there are just too many people who have found contracts easily or relatively easily over, in some cases, several decades not finding work anymore to suggest it is a personal failing or skills going out of date.

In demand skills have constantly changed and most of us were able to keep up. it really isn't a new thing. We are witnessing an existential change in the market,

That's the thing, even if you do shift focus, it isn't enough. I've moved from more .NET and server side development to cloud (primarily Azure and AWS) and even some AI development work thrown in. It's not enough. The problem is that work has just stopped being advertised. Yes, I've tended to work in large corporates but have had no problems working in small startups as and when necessary. Hiring has just fallen off a cliff.

Now, my belief is that, while AI has had an impact, outsourcing and offshoring has played a much bigger role. We all know that outsourcing and ITC abuse has happened for years. Likewise offshoring. You only have to look at posts such as the following on X:



For the original: https://x.com/WallStreetMav/status/1972375567019434154 - yes, I'm aware of the community note.

I'll say what I believe many won't, a recent trade deal is a travesty for the domestic IT workforce, because we can't possibly expect to compete for the period they don't have to pay NI, and that's before we've even talked about pay.

[sadkingbilly]

Your posts do mark you out as being rather insufferable.

For many of us who have worked as contractors for a long time, it's f***ing hard when you've managed to land contracts for the best part of 20 years and then all of a sudden it's nigh on impossible to find work. On a personal level it's been way worse than 2008-2010 so far, and definitely worse than covid.

It's great for you that you're fighting off work. Congratulations, you're the forum hero.

Your niche may well be doing fine right now, but it may well see a downturn too at some point.

A little humility and empathy goes a long way, especially for people struggling in this market, myself included.

i've seen lots of downturns.
been a contractor since '72
my point is that whingeing and moaning doesn't help.

[Cookielove]

That's the thing, even if you do shift focus, it isn't enough. I've moved from more .NET and server side development to cloud (primarily Azure and AWS) and even some AI development work thrown in. It's not enough. The problem is that work has just stopped being advertised. Yes, I've tended to work in large corporates but have had no problems working in small startups as and when necessary. Hiring has just fallen off a cliff.

Now, my belief is that, while AI has had an impact, outsourcing and offshoring has played a much bigger role. We all know that outsourcing and ITC abuse has happened for years. Likewise offshoring. You only have to look at posts such as the following on X:



For the original: https://x.com/WallStreetMav/status/1972375567019434154 - yes, I'm aware of the community note.

I'll say what I believe many won't, a recent trade deal is a travesty for the domestic IT workforce, because we can't possibly expect to compete for the period they don't have to pay NI, and that's before we've even talked about pay.

I agree I've said this several times, allowing cheaper foreign labour in to undercut us is a big problem.

Other governments put their own citizens first but not here successive govts. want cheap labour and to hell with UK citizens it isn't just in IT.

We can't compete it isn't a level playing field; the recent trade deal with India they pay no NI and as you say that is before you even look at pay rates...it is disgraceful.

[ShandyDrinker]

i've seen lots of downturns.
been a contractor since '72
my point is that whingeing and moaning doesn't help.

That would potentially put you being in your early 70s unless you started contracting very young?

Regardless, I do agree with you that moaning doesn't necessarily help, but there is sheer desperation for many. The problem is that it does appear existential for a lot of people, not being able to get work at all. I've just taken the plunge and done something I never expected to do again before retirement, and that is take a permanent job. I'll be earning nearly 3 times less than I did in my last contract, which was admittedly my highest paid ever and lasted for a long time.

What I would say to many contractors out there struggling - I really would take what you can get, even if it is permanent. Cash flow is king. If it pays you enough to survive, don't let pride get in the way.

[oliverson]

That would potentially put you being in your early 70s unless you started contracting very young?

Regardless, I do agree with you that moaning doesn't necessarily help, but there is sheer desperation for many. The problem is that it does appear existential for a lot of people, not being able to get work at all. I've just taken the plunge and done something I never expected to do again before retirement, and that is take a permanent job. I'll be earning nearly 3 times less than I did in my last contract, which was admittedly my highest paid ever and lasted for a long time.

What I would say to many contractors out there struggling - I really would take what you can get, even if it is permanent. Cash flow is king. If it pays you enough to survive, don't let pride get in the way.

I'm talking to a couple of 'consultancies', the kind that originate from 'offshore' locations. They seemingly have plenty of work, if you fancy low rates. This is where our work has gone, 100%. Companies not prepared to take on contractors through their PSC's farming the work out to these consultancies who don't have the manpower. Hence they go hunting on LinkedIn and drop you a line with pretty insulting rates. The only positive is that they're usually remote. Many are inside but not all.

This, 2025 is the state of the market and I don't see it changing for the better, unless Reform get in and stand by their 'manifesto' to abolish IR35, get a grip on immigration, legal and illegal, lower taxation, promote growth, etc. Trouble is, if that happens it's unlikely to be for another 3.5 years or so, which doesn't really help me as I'll be in my early 60's and well and truly retired. But at least it might give this country (well the UK, I'm not there currently) a chance.