State of the Market

[GigiBronz]

Anyone offering £1000 per day for a python specialist is probably looking for a Seigfried and Roy style stage magician...

my background is a bit more complex(not plain dev) but that role is in FS, migration work and considering the culture many half decent engineers won't touch it with a barge pole. hence the rate.

considering taxes are 70% after 100k for inside and you get taxed at source, it's not even that much. you get £3 for every £7 that you earn. you'd be better off with a run of the mill £600 outside role, remote and no stress. everyone knows it, hence why it's £1000pd. or even more if you negotiate your hand well.

[TheDude]

my background is a bit more complex(not plain dev) but that role is in FS, migration work and considering the culture many half decent engineers won't touch it with a barge pole. hence the rate.

considering taxes are 70% after 100k for inside and you get taxed at source, it's not even that much. you get £3 for every £7 that you earn. you'd be better off with a run of the mill £600 outside role, remote and no stress. everyone knows it, hence why it's £1000pd. or even more if you negotiate your hand well.

I work in FS in one of the higher paid technologies and rates above £850 are rare.

That said if this is a quant role then I guess £1000 is more likely.

Why is the culture such a problem - is this one of the banks or a fund?

[GigiBronz]

I work in FS in one of the higher paid technologies and rates about £850 are rare.

That said if this is a quant role then I guess £1000 is more likely.

Why is the culture such a problem - is this one of the banks or a fund?

have a look, there are plenty of roles above £850. what's that? £7.7k net? not even a lot considering that in most places you get 120k as VP + bonus as perm and benefits. and everyone is a VP.
after last year of everyone moving around you can probably do 150k+bonus.

I've seen FAANG graduates on reddit mentioning £80k salaries in London. E4 level in FANG as well with £250k compensation. sky is the limit baby

it's through a consultancy for a bank. one of them with an iffy name. in culture I mean big ego people, very long hours and presentism. for many that is quite standard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerque...eb2x&context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerque...rs_negotiable/

Goldman?

BoA and consultancy something with I. £950pd

[TheDude]

it's through a consultancy for a bank. one of them with an iffy name. in culture I mean big ego people, very long hours and presentism. for many that is quite standard.

Goldman?

[GigiBronz]

Goldman?

Left the answer above.

so, spent a bit more time thinking about it. And I don’t think I am wrong about this.

based on my interpretation of the market and the calls I’ve received over the past two weeks, without even actively looking. Market is hot as duck.

don’t let yourself fooled by corporate shills that might say differently(there are quite a few around here). You can spot the weasel words from a mile in these threads.

if you are a plain dev engineer, and someone has offered you a contract(which is built on the presumption that they think you would be able to pull it off, which is all you need anyway) then you should not take less than £600pd outside or £800 inside.
if you do otherwise you are dumb as duck.

If you are any good and have some niece experience behind you than £800 is fair game.
FS experience on proprietary software? Name your price.

grads are getting 80-90k now, mid level engineers 140k and senior engineers 200k+ at faang and other places around. £700pd is so 2002. Wake up.
if permies are getting those numbers, and they are, then contractor market is probably at least 50% higher as well. But you would not see it if the agent bents you over… and I am quite sure that is the case now.

levels.fyi

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerque...job_in_london/

they are lining their pockets, the question is… why are you not doing so?


sure agents might tell you the contrary, because they are trying to offset the pandemic loss now, and make a killing before everything bursts into flames. They’ve switched probably 4 companies to get that sweet high commission now the market is recovering. They have their cocaine dealers on speed dial and ready to bend you over for that extra 30£ on a negociation.

but don’t let anyone tell you any different. Set a fixed figure, ask it with confidence. They might try to talk you down - but if they are still on the call with you - then you have a better ducking chance than you have ever thought.

fill ya boots <mod snip - not a good word to use> Oh wait, scratch the last part. This is not r/WSB. But I hope a good number of people do get to read this and realise I am not spitting nonsense. This is the truth and this is the time to act on it.

[lecyclist]

That'll be because of all those lockdown dogs people purchased.

fill ya boots retards. Oh wait, scratch the last part. This is not r/WSB. But I hope a good number of people do get to read this and realise I am not spitting nonsense. This is the truth and this is the time to act on it.

Love the argumentative attitude GigiBronz, wish what you said about £600pd outside / £800 inside were true. Just not my retarded experience of the marketplace.

Corporate shills and other retards will be along shortly to disagree with you.

[TheDude]

Left the answer above.

so, spent a bit more time thinking about it. And I don’t think I am wrong about this.

based on my interpretation of the market and the calls I’ve received over the past two weeks, without even actively looking. Market is hot as duck.

don’t let yourself fooled by corporate shills that might say differently(there are quite a few around here). You can spot the weasel words from a mile in these threads.

if you are a plain dev engineer, and someone has offered you a contract(which is built on the presumption that they think you would be able to pull it off, which is all you need anyway) then you should not take less than £600pd outside or £800 inside.
if you do otherwise you are dumb as duck.

If you are any good and have some niece experience behind you than £800 is fair game.
FS experience on proprietary software? Name your price.

grads are getting 80-90k now, mid level engineers 140k and senior engineers 200k+ at faang and other places around. £700pd is so 2002. Wake up.
if permies are getting those numbers, and they are, then contractor market is probably at least 50% higher as well. But you would not see it if the agent bents you over… and I am quite sure that is the case now.

levels.fyi

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerque...job_in_london/

they are lining their pockets, the question is… why are you not doing so?


sure agents might tell you the contrary, because they are trying to offset the pandemic loss now, and make a killing before everything bursts into flames. They’ve switched probably 4 companies to get that sweet high commission now the market is recovering. They have their cocaine dealers on speed dial and ready to bend you over for that extra 30£ on a negociation.

but don’t let anyone tell you any different. Set a fixed figure, ask it with confidence. They might try to talk you down - but if they are still on the call with you - then you have a better ducking chance than you have ever thought.

fill ya boots. Oh wait, scratch the last part. This is not r/WSB. But I hope a good number of people do get to read this and realise I am not spitting nonsense. This is the truth and this is the time to act on it.

I have no doubt that FAANG companies pay well but a couple of brags on Reddit is not a fair representation of the market.

I am an experienced Scala developer and the highest rate that I have ever been approached with was £850 inside and I have some solid FS experience.

That said I will stick £150 on the next rate I am approached with and see what happens.

[PCTNN]

Got an email yesterday where the chap asked if I was interested in a Lead Service Designer role that paid £150-250 a day and was inside ir35. I replied asking if it was a typo but haven't heard back yet.

[Bluenose]

Love the argumentative attitude GigiBronz, wish what you said about £600pd outside / £800 inside were true. Just not my retarded experience of the marketplace.

Corporate shills and other retards will be along shortly to disagree with you.

Although Gigibronz' language is blunt he is pretty much correct with his assesment of the current market for experienced resources that have up-to-date skills and can hit the ground running. It is also perfectly normal that after such a severe bear market that the 'snap back' is pretty violent and overshoots the historical averages.

IR35 is also playing a part and being the useful idiot in the room because it is showing up the City based resourcing cartel in financial services talent for being the false, fixed market it has been since 2011.

If you can earn more money, outside of London, outside of financial services (like myself and others have been doing once we realised what was happening around 2014/2015) something was always suspect with the market and it was only a matter of time before the waters broke on this cartel.

The total mis-management in the flexible resource pool in financial services (kick-in-the-balls rate cuts and quality of life decreases) plus the lack of training of their own young permies means City based companies now have three choices for an experienced hire a) employ someone on ED level salary (150k basic) b) get a deliotte graduate in with 5 years experience at 1250-1450/day c) get a decent boutique consultancy in at 1150/day+ d) swallow an IR35 inside role way above their 2011-2019 permie-tractor rates e) shaft the project with cheap resources and cost more time/money e) go without.

If you are a City desk resource manager right now, option D still remains the fastest and most flexible way to get someone in. For market sensitive work, it can also grant you an increased level of secrecy and protection of intellectual property that is harder to do with option B and C.

Therefore, there is rate competition appearing for the experienced contractors that are willing to do an IR35 caught role in the first place, regardless of money on offer. Those orgs not part of the cartel therefore, started to increase their rates.

I would suspect that the guidance from the commercial teams at the banks into the resourcing teams is that any IR35-inside rate below c1450/day is profit in the bank and this is now the tide thats lifting the boats at the upper end of the market.

In turn, the boutique consultancies are raising the outside ir35 rates to c800/day as they can still make a margin on the 1150+ they will charge and at the same time, open doors into places and projects that the City-based permie-tractor army has been chair-blocking for 20 years.

Amazon, being a big employer in tech has just poured fuel on this fire by raising their basic salary cap to c180k GBP without add-ons which may mean the basic salary for an ED level hire in a bank will need to get bumped to 200k GBP, if it has not already as Amazon et al. were already poaching people from the banks as it was due to, the quality of life and opportunity increases that working at Amazon gives you versus a financial services company.

[Scholes blurred vision]

Started looking on the 07/02. Had four interviews. Offered the one I wanted on the 11/02. Start on the 21/02. Interview process was swift. All four were hybrid office/home.
As others have recently mentioned the market is buoyant and a bigger portion of outside engagements are available (in my area of expertise, anyway).