State of the Market

[Old Greg]

That's me ruled out, right there. My attitude stinks.

That will be all the selenium in your diet.

[jayn200]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to this forum and need some advice with the current market and jobs.

I have been a contractor(programmer) for over 12 years. but with covid no contract and started applying for perm roles.
Usually for contract roles been through on short telephone interview and an onsite interview with a technical assessment or just one interview ( i'm sure many of you had the same experience)
Now all the perm roles are asking to do "take home exercises" and some take good few days. Then to be told it's not what we expected...

Finally after passing 2 stages i am on to the third stage which is 2 hours and 45 mins interview. This is a fairly new company established in the last 5 years.

The role is not in my main programming language it's moving to a less popular language.

I need some advice here
1)is it worth switching carrier now?
2)say i got the offer and i don't like the new language i won't be able to leave as it's a perm role.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.
i know the market is pretty bad but i don't want to take the wrong decision.

Have you only been programming in one language that entire time?

Switching programming languages is relatively easy if you've done it before but maybe you'll find it challenging the first time.

I was only a programmer for about 5-6 years and in that time programmed in java, c#, python and objective-c I only took courses in uni on java and c#. When starting using a new programming language it's only like 3 months before you are barely looking things up anymore.

I assume you're not the first developer there and you're not making something from scratch? or you'd have a choice in programming language probably? If so you will have an existing code base to look at. Obviously also look at official documentation and if there are other developers there use them! Ask them questions, get them to review your code, etc. You can also search online for some blogs/articles about switching from your language to the new one and make sure you don't get caught out by the same things other encountered.

[krytonsheep]

Trying to judge how bad the market really is, anyone got any positive stories of getting boomed recently or a client going on a hiring spree?

[eek]

Ladymuck wants 2 BAs https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2804743

[dx4100]

I need to rant...

Contracts in the North West are just not a thing anymore it seems. Ive applied for a few remote London based ones but not getting much traction as they are no doubt getting hits from local contractors. So given everything I have started considering perm positions. To be honest im getting to the point in life where its time to start moving over to perm as its suits my life better going forward.

On that note the manager at a very well known online retailer contacted me a few weeks ago about a Perm opportunity. He interviewed me for contract role last year and felt this role would suit. (I never got feedback from that but I put that down to their internal recruitment team who contacted me for that one)

So I take time out of family holiday to hold an initial conversation with him - lasting about an hour. Then a call with him and another manager this week to go really deep into the role etc. All is well say they will get back to me. I really like the role and would love to land it. So I was sold and hopeful they was. Ready to take it on the chin if they felt differently - thats fair enough.

Three days of utter radio silence. Despite messaging them directly on linked in checking in and asking how long feedback will be etc / saying thanks for their time - the usual.

This isn't some recruitment agent who I would expect nothing of but directly with a client who contacted me directly. Am I wrong to expect a little bit more respect / engagement ?

I know we are all expected to be sheets of impenetrable armour who never get emotional about anything on here but given everything that is going on in the world right now (in our personal live and working lives) and peoples somewhat fragile states I think people need to a bit more respectful of each other. I have only been looking for a month and I can already feel the strain. God knows how I would feel if I have been looking for 3 months like some of guys.

I have 12 month warchest etc - but that's not the point - I get self worth and meaning from doing my job and really want to get back at it

Anyway - rant over...

[founder]

the market will bounce back, or there will be a revolution against all the control and lockdown

[eek]

I'll be blunt - if you want to control your own destiny - now is the perfect time to stop trying to find a contract and work out how you can sell your skills to people directly.

Yes it's blooming scary but I just don't see the contracts nor the permanent options appearing.

People only contracted because it's easier (and was more profitable) than the other options. Given that that is no longer the case you really need to decide what you want to do for the rest of your days prior to retirement...

[founder]

I'll be blunt - if you want to control your own destiny - now is the perfect time to stop trying to find a contract and work out how you can sell your stills to people directly.

Yes it's blooming scary but I just don't see the contracts nor the permanent options appearing.

best advice ive seen on here forever


btw im running a tech podcast if anyone wants a bit of group therapy and wants to rant on there. dm me in case

[jayn200]

I need to rant...

Contracts in the North West are just not a thing anymore it seems. Ive applied for a few remote London based ones but not getting much traction as they are no doubt getting hits from local contractors. So given everything I have started considering perm positions. To be honest im getting to the point in life where its time to start moving over to perm as its suits my life better going forward.

On that note the manager at a very well known online retailer contacted me a few weeks ago about a Perm opportunity. He interviewed me for contract role last year and felt this role would suit. (I never got feedback from that but I put that down to their internal recruitment team who contacted me for that one)

So I take time out of family holiday to hold an initial conversation with him - lasting about an hour. Then a call with him and another manager this week to go really deep into the role etc. All is well say they will get back to me. I really like the role and would love to land it. So I was sold and hopeful they was. Ready to take it on the chin if they felt differently - thats fair enough.

Three days of utter radio silence. Despite messaging them directly on linked in checking in and asking how long feedback will be etc / saying thanks for their time - the usual.

This isn't some recruitment agent who I would expect nothing of but directly with a client who contacted me directly. Am I wrong to expect a little bit more respect / engagement ?

I know we are all expected to be sheets of impenetrable armour who never get emotional about anything on here but given everything that is going on in the world right now (in our personal live and working lives) and peoples somewhat fragile states I think people need to a bit more respectful of each other. I have only been looking for a month and I can already feel the strain. God knows how I would feel if I have been looking for 3 months like some of guys.

I have 12 month warchest etc - but that's not the point - I get self worth and meaning from doing my job and really want to get back at it

Anyway - rant over...

3 days? I applied for some perm roles while doing my previous contract (because of the upcoming ir35 changes) sometime around august/sept 2019. I ended up with 2 offers. First took around 2 months start to finish and the offer was too low (55k, I was initially hoping for 75-80k), the other took 3 months before getting an initial verbal offer for 60, managed to get it up to 70k but because of the increased money they had to rewrite the role and get it reapproved. My contract finished right around this time so I was available immediately. I waited 2 months of them telling me every single week that they expected to get the contract to me the following week, finally after 2 months I spent a day applying to contract roles, got 2 offers same week and started one of them following week. I then called them and informed them that I took a contract offer and wasnt available anymore. They had the nerve to start lecturing me about wasting 6 months of their time...

I know the market is not like that anymore but the point of that is 3 days is nothing in permie recruitment. They will go weeks without any communication and then make contact and not even apologise for the delay! It's insane.

[CosmicWave]

I need to rant...

<all the bits in the middle />

Anyway - rant over...

Look, the market is bad. I have not had anything worked out for months now, not even a taste of inside IR35 role or permy.
All was good for me until March, and that was the end! (if I only knew it then!).

I have had consulting companies call directly (without me applying) since I seem to fit the spec, etc. and none of those BS about how am I finding the market etc. i.e. these seem to be real ones, and they even have put me forward. Nothing happens after that... I am told they are awaiting decision from the end-client to "approve" things and then the interview process would begin, apparently.

No idea what these things even mean anymore.

IMHO, the contract market is dead and gone. I mean its vaporised. Its not going to happen again!
Perm positions are a possibility, but it takes a long time with their processes, etc.

The situation is like - there is nowhere to land!
So buckle up, and if you have any plan B / side business business etc. go into that with full force.