State of the Market

[ladymuck]

I don't state what type of role I've had on my CV (granted my last permie role was 16 years ago so no longer features anyway). I have one generic heading under which all roles are included and don't specify which is which.

When it comes to proper referencing, say for a role where the detail is important, I would fill those forms in with the proper status for each role as necessary.

[eek]

How much do you really know about business? Like really truly know? During negotiation information is commonly withheld, even misrepresented. It's called information asymmetry. Some of it may be legal, some of it may not, some of it will walk the line. In business you sometimes intentionally break the law and sometimes intentionally violate a contract. It's called taking a risk. You may get caught, you may not but you have ascertained that the risk is worth the benefit to the business (or you should have). There is no business of any substantial size that has not violated a contract or misrepresented some facts at some point.

The ethical business sitting nicely in the corner being 100% honest and open about everything only exists in your imagination. I don't even think its something we should aim to achieve, businesses that try to be perfect fail because of inaction due to lack of risk taking.

So exactly how many people do you employ? All companies know that businesses will only reveal the information you ask and that that advice may not be 100% perfect.

But if a potential employee tried to pull Sira's trick on me and I found out (even x years later) they would be out the door for gross misconduct and would have to sue for any money we owed them.... Remember the check is not - confirm the CV is accurate (that's marketing), the request is confirm the work history for the last x years is correct...

[jayn200]

So exactly how many people do you employ? All companies know that businesses will only reveal the information you ask and that that advice may not be 100% perfect.

But if a potential employee tried to pull Sira's trick on me and I found out (even x years later) they would be out the door for gross misconduct and would have to sue for any money we owed them.... Remember the check is not - confirm the CV is accurate (that's marketing), the request is confirm the work history for the last x years is correct...

Yeah that's fine but guess what else happened during those years? That business (not employee.. this is a contractor forum) billed you for those years and delivered work. As long as the work was delivered and you accepted it good luck trying to sue them for imaginary damages.

If they didn't misrepresent they wouldn't have been able to bill for those years. That is risk.. they took a risk knowing they may get caught but it will also increase their odds of getting billable work. No one is sitting here saying you don't have a right to stop doing business with them when you find out they misrepresented themselves. Of course you would stop doing business with them, so would I. That's totally logical but if you're sitting there doing business expecting everyone to represent themselves 100% honestly and never doing your due diligence then that's not a very competent way of running your business.

[eek]

Yeah that's fine but guess what else happened during those years? That business (not employee.. this is a contractor forum) billed you for those years and delivered work. As long as the work was delivered and you accepted it good luck trying to sue them for imaginary damages.

If they didn't misrepresent they wouldn't have been able to bill for those years. That is risk.. they took a risk knowing they may get caught but it will also increase their odds of getting billable work. No one is sitting here saying you don't have a right to stop doing business with them when you find out they misrepresented themselves. Of course you would stop doing business with them, so would I. That's totally logical but if you're sitting there doing business expecting everyone to represent themselves 100% honestly and never doing your due diligence then that's not a very competent way of running your business.

Read what I wrote and that answer what I wrote rather than things I never said....

[jayn200]

Read what I wrote and that answer what I wrote rather than things I never said....

I answered the parts I felt were relevant. This is a forum, I can answer how I like just as you can.

[eek]

I answered the parts I felt were relevant. This is a forum, I can answer how I like just as you can.

Nope you went off at a tangent while showing a complete inability to read what was written as what you are claiming I wrote is the exact opposite of what I actually wrote.

[CheeseSlice]

This is what I'm currently seeing on the market when comparing finding work via agencies vs direct recruiters.

Agencies are still broken. Some signs of recovery with the established recruiters who are growing teams, but they're still basically useless. They're unable to find new clients and even if they can they're unable to meet them F2F. Most newbie agents are still furloughed or were laid off, so nobody for the seniors to farm out taskwork to. Agencies that have survived are mainly using existing client list and pipelines that were paused during lockdown, now unpaused. Where they need to go to market to fill a role, there are way too many applications and they cant cope because the seniors are doing it all alone.

Direct client recruiters are approaching, or responding to my approaches. There are so many applicants, they think this is easy, no need for agencies. They're dragging the hiring process out with no concept of time or structure, lots of interview stages, adding extra ones randomly, or more candidates mid-way, no end is in sight. Nobody is pushing them to move forward or make a f**ing decision, because the candidates will still be there.

Happy days

[eek]

This is what I'm currently seeing on the market when comparing finding work via agencies vs direct recruiters.

Agencies are still broken. Some signs of recovery with the established recruiters who are growing teams, but they're still basically useless. They're unable to find new clients and even if they can they're unable to meet them F2F. Most newbie agents are still furloughed or were laid off, so nobody for the seniors to farm out taskwork to. Agencies that have survived are mainly using existing client list and pipelines that were paused during lockdown, now unpaused. Where they need to go to market to fill a role, there are way too many applications and they cant cope because the seniors are doing it all alone.

Direct client recruiters are approaching, or responding to my approaches. There are so many applicants, they think this is easy, no need for agencies. They're dragging the hiring process out with no concept of time or structure, lots of interview stages, adding extra ones randomly, or more candidates mid-way, no end is in sight. Nobody is pushing them to move forward or make a f**ing decision, because the candidates will still be there.

Happy days

If they are dragging out the recruitment process that also means they have no real work to do - otherwise they wouldn't be inventing additional interview stages to make additional work for themselves.

[dsc]

This is what I'm currently seeing on the market when comparing finding work via agencies vs direct recruiters.

Agencies are still broken. Some signs of recovery with the established recruiters who are growing teams, but they're still basically useless. They're unable to find new clients and even if they can they're unable to meet them F2F. Most newbie agents are still furloughed or were laid off, so nobody for the seniors to farm out taskwork to. Agencies that have survived are mainly using existing client list and pipelines that were paused during lockdown, now unpaused. Where they need to go to market to fill a role, there are way too many applications and they cant cope because the seniors are doing it all alone.

Direct client recruiters are approaching, or responding to my approaches. There are so many applicants, they think this is easy, no need for agencies. They're dragging the hiring process out with no concept of time or structure, lots of interview stages, adding extra ones randomly, or more candidates mid-way, no end is in sight. Nobody is pushing them to move forward or make a f**ing decision, because the candidates will still be there.

Happy days

Exactly this. Also don't forget that companies can drop positions willy-nilly anytime in the recruitment process. Now fair enough this was happening before Covid as well, but it seems fairly standard now, already seen two positions that I've applied for simply deleted as "the business needs have changed". I'm afraid that with Brexit this will just go on till spring next year

[sira]

This is what I'm currently seeing on the market when comparing finding work via agencies vs direct recruiters.

Agencies are still broken. Some signs of recovery with the established recruiters who are growing teams, but they're still basically useless. They're unable to find new clients and even if they can they're unable to meet them F2F. Most newbie agents are still furloughed or were laid off, so nobody for the seniors to farm out taskwork to. Agencies that have survived are mainly using existing client list and pipelines that were paused during lockdown, now unpaused. Where they need to go to market to fill a role, there are way too many applications and they cant cope because the seniors are doing it all alone.

Direct client recruiters are approaching, or responding to my approaches. There are so many applicants, they think this is easy, no need for agencies. They're dragging the hiring process out with no concept of time or structure, lots of interview stages, adding extra ones randomly, or more candidates mid-way, no end is in sight. Nobody is pushing them to move forward or make a f**ing decision, because the candidates will still be there.

Happy days

100%. It's like the wild west out there