State of the Market

[hobnob]

Im assuming scraping is what those dudes do at - whats the site called? OnlyOutSideIR35.com? Cant remember

It's "Outside IR35 Roles", and I think you're right about the scraping. E.g. this role says:
Salary: £65,000 – £80,000 Base Salary plus bonus and benefits
Workday Senior HRIS Specialist - Outside IR35 Roles Limited

That doesn't sound like an outside contract to me!

[hobnob]

I was speaking to an agent today who basically said they don't advertise roles unless they can't find someone they already have on their books.

The agent I spoke to today also said most of the roles on the boards are just CV harvesting.

That's why I'm dubious about the logic of "tailor your CV for each application". Suppose that I see an advert for a Cisco role, so I add extra detail to my CV about my Cisco experience and chop out all the bits about other switches/firewalls to make space (keeping to a 2 page limit). If the agency then gets another vacancy for someone with Aruba or Palo Alto experience, and they search their database, my CV won't match.

So, I go with the simple approach: keep my CV up to date and send the same version to everyone. I might use a covering letter to provide more details, but I'll only amend the CV if the agency specifically ask me to.

[edison]

Workday - the worst thing to happen to applying for jobs in 30 years. Lets make you choose a username and password for EVERY company advertising roles. Even though they all use Workday.

"SSO is for losers" - Head Of Product - Workday

Just seen exactly this on LinkedIn. Job spec was literally a one man digital agency. Wasnt even 3 roles in one more like 5.

Roles and responsibilities of a Scrum Master, Product Manager, Head Of Design - cant remember the rest - just ridiculous

I only discovered this in the last few weeks having applied for quite a few perm roles. I thought it must be a mistake at first then the same thing happened again and again.

Back in 2018/19, I was struggling to hire PMs for HR and payroll implementations even though I was offering about £700-750/day. One of the agencies told me that many potential PMs were getting gigs at around £1000/day for Workday or SuccessFactors such was the demand at the time.

Unbelievable to think that such a product treats users in this way.

[tsmith]

The agent I spoke to today also said most of the roles on the boards are just CV harvesting. We all knew that already but getting it from the horses mouth makes me feel a bit better about my low hit rate.

Looks like the best option at the moment is to befriend as many agents as you can and hope one of them comes through for you.

Im trying engaging with some of their posts. I pretty good at that. Some Agents do have relatively interesting takes.

Social Selling I guess would be the technical term - mostly feels like p*ssing in the wind though. Or a teardrop in an ocean of career shaped despair.

From what Ive seen in the last 2 years - as a 10 year + contractor. Its direct to employer to have any hope if you wanna go perm that is. Agents are useless to me now.

Anytime the agent places you in a perm its gonna be 20% commission. Thats a big risk on an ex contractor.

Friend of mine built a tool that auto applies for jobs on one particular job board.

If I had the time Id build some sort of giant scraper that scrapes jobs from various locations. Ive heard thats already a problematic trend for employers now. Auto applications

Im assuming scraping is what those dudes do at - whats the site called? OnlyOutSideIR35.com? Cant remember

[pjt]

I keep applying for stuff but 99.9% of the time I never hear back at all.

The agent I spoke to today also said most of the roles on the boards are just CV harvesting. We all knew that already but getting it from the horses mouth makes me feel a bit better about my low hit rate.

Looks like the best option at the moment is to befriend as many agents as you can and hope one of them comes through for you.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I keep applying for stuff but 99.9% of the time I never hear back at all.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I know this is a cliche, but although I am pleased to hear from recruiters, 90% of the time when they are messaging me it's for roles I can't do even if I wanted to.
Workday's a typical example - I only know a tiny part of it (UK Payroll and absence) and although there are skills and knowledge that apply overall, I can't create integrations for example which seems to be the main in demand skill. I also can't get (even if I pay for it) training on that except by being employed by a partner firm. I keep getting offered integration gigs and various other stuff I can't do.

[tsmith]

I was speaking to an agent today who basically said they don't advertise roles unless they can't find someone they already have on their books. He said posting job adds is more hassle than its worth as you just get flooded with a load of unsuitable CVs. Seems to back up what I'm seeeing which is nothing suitable being found on the jobs boards and very little on linkedin with any viable leads coming from Agents who already have my CV. I've had a fair few leads come direct from agents recently but keep getting beaten to the goal even when I'm really suited. Competition is fierce.

Doesnt suprise me. I remember hearing an agent say Job Boards were hopeless about 15 years ago.

I also was around during the hiring process with LinkedIn job ads once. Applicant quality was also trash. Mostly non EU people.

Ive just finished LI automated application test. 1000+ out reach to Heads of XXX.

About 300 responses. Which is average for LI automation - Circa 30%. 5 or so Heads of XXX with active roles. 0 interviews.

Open roles had one thing in common. Either Crypto/Blockchain or ML/Datascience

So basically only roles with seemingly high levels of shortages is there anyone willing to entertain a convo with me.

I have no crypto/blockchain/ml/datascience experience and have no desire to enter those fields.

Back to the side hustles it is!

[pjt]

It's never been easier to search for roles online and apply for them with a couple of clicks.

Paradoxically, it's never been more difficult to secure a role advertised online because it is so easy to apply and recruiters/hiring managers get bombarded with applications. On a lot of applications now, there are one or two knockout questions e.g. 'do you have experience in X industry?' So applications can be filtered this way.

I saw a role recently at 5pm on LinkedIn that had been posted an hour earlier at 4pm. By 930 next morning it was already taken down due to the number of applicants.

I was speaking to an agent today who basically said they don't advertise roles unless they can't find someone they already have on their books. He said posting job adds is more hassle than its worth as you just get flooded with a load of unsuitable CVs. Seems to back up what I'm seeeing which is nothing suitable being found on the jobs boards and very little on linkedin with any viable leads coming from Agents who already have my CV. I've had a fair few leads come direct from agents recently but keep getting beaten to the goal even when I'm really suited. Competition is fierce.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

The thing about Workday as an applicant tracking system is interesting. If it wasn't for the URL and the obvious branding, no-one would know they were applying using Workday - and because each customer defines the application process and holds the applicant data, they require the applicant to create a login each time.

Workday doesn't care of course because it's not their issue really BUT it is getting them a bad name as their name is so visible.

Someone at Workday either missed a trick (or else decided they are not interested) by not creating the ability to share data - but that would mean Workday offering free user accounts to applicants of course.

Also their parsing of CV data is hopeless.

Apparently there's a Chrome extension that can store the data from a WD application for use in the next one.