State of the Market

[jamesbrown]

They can (and do) in all but name. Currently have a day rate of X - working for Umbrella they get that, take off ER costs then fire that number through the PAYE machine - nett result, contractor is paying for ER NI in assignment rate.

Most of us just bump the rate to end up with the same post PAYE NETT that we'd get when taking into account Corp / Divi Tax.

If you work through an umbrella, you're an umbrella employee and you're in roughly the same tax position as a regular employee. Employment costs are always passed through to employees and consumers. It's really no different than arguing about employers shafting regular employees for ErNI. It's a complete failure to understand that ErNI isn't "your money", it's a cost of employment. If you don't want to be an employee, then... work outside IR35 contracts. When you negotiate a rate or fixed price on an outside contract, you factor in the total cost of doing business. The same costs of employment apply, but you can choose not to employ anyone and shareholders can benefit from the distribution of profits. If you can't get outside IR35 contracts, then tough luck. But as you (ironically) note in your last sentence, you still have some power to negotiate your rate.

[Bluenose]

They can (and do) in all but name. Currently have a day rate of X - working for Umbrella they get that, take off ER costs then fire that number through the PAYE machine - nett result, contractor is paying for ER NI in assignment rate.

Most of us just bump the rate to end up with the same post PAYE NETT that we'd get when taking into account Corp / Divi Tax.

Some EU tax systems allow you to write off UK employer nics off against your EU income tax bill (whatever country you are in).

Therefore the perversion of this increase is that my income tax bill goes down as the NIC's bill goes up.

[GJABS]

Looks like I have a new contract, fingers crossed the onboarding goes without hiccup, I don't like to count the chickens until I actually start, or get paid for the first time, but seems likely it will all be fine. Outside IR35, £500/day, cloud solutions architect.

[SussexSeagull]

+Competition from the younger crowd
+Competition from the sheer rate of tech evolution invalidating your skillset
+Competition from AI

I was interviewed by two people who must have ben 15-20 younger than me last year and some of the feedback was my views on testing were dated. There was me thinking running a series of tests to measure the quality of a piece of software was fairly timeless.

It will v are heavily from sector to sector but I think with AI it might be more business is holding off on major projects as they fear they might be out of date in a couple of years.

[krytonsheep]

I was interviewed by two people who must have been 15-20 younger than me last year and some of the feedback was my views on testing were dated.

I've noticed a lot of tech influencers on social media talk complete bollocks, but they'll get thousands of people liking their content. What happens when those people end up in the work place? Testing code for quality is a good thing to do.

[fatJock]

Having never worked inside IR35, this is something that confuses me when applying for inside roles.

Some seem to quote the all inclusive day rate, from which employers and employees NI will be deducted from.
Some seem to quote the gross day rate, from which employers NI has already been deducted.

Its never really clear which is being discussed, and often employment agents don't even seem to know. For my own calculation purposes I just assume it will be the former, and then I will be pleasantly surprised if it turns out to be the latter.

More recently I just stopped applying for inside roles at all. There are still more outside, and my business also has real expenses that would make inside suck even more.

Yeah that's the kicker - you need to know the day rate being charged to the customer (Assignment rate) and the the umbrella can do a calculation showing the breakdown after it's been put through employer and PAYE costs. I use Clarity (very active on here) and their documentation and payslips etc is very good.

Expenses are an issue but the two Umbrella roles that I have taken have been hybrid with a commute to the office once or twice a month which hasn't been an issue. Other general business expenses I'd be paying anyway whether I was in work or not so I tend to just accept that overhead. They've been longer engagements too so there's something to say for that given the current market.

Current role I am in is a return to a customer I worked with six years ago where I was outside. They are very risk averse so although they got two options (outside at £x, umbrella at £x+20%) they mandate that all contractors are via umbrella. The 20% variance makes it there or there about when compare to Corp Tax / Divis etc and you can limit some of the taxation impact with pension salary sacrifice.

I know people shy away from Umbrella but the numbers can work. LI is full of principled but benched people saying never to inside work - often bemuses me. Rather have what is still a very decent income than be living on toast and principles.

[SussexSeagull]

I've noticed a lot of tech influencers on social media talk complete bollocks, but they'll get thousands of people liking their content. What happens when those people end up in the work place? Testing code for quality is a good thing to do.

I think a lot of the problem is people think Automated Testing is a short cut. While it is very powerful used properly, especially for regression testing, each test should have been manually run at least once and should have been based on a properly planned and scripted manual test.

The other trend seems to be moving away from scripted testing to exploratory testing. Maybe I, and hence the organisations I have worked for, are showing their age but bar one or two start ups who weren't big on the whole structure thing, I don't think any of them would have been happy with me freestyling over their product for a few days then saying it is ok.

[eek]

I think a lot of the problem is people think Automated Testing is a short cut. While it is very powerful used properly, especially for regression testing, each test should have been manually run at least once and should have been based on a properly planned and scripted manual test.

The other trend seems to be moving away from scripted testing to exploratory testing. Maybe I, and hence the organisations I have worked for, are showing their age but bar one or two start ups who weren't big on the whole structure thing, I don't think any of them would have been happy with me freestyling over their product for a few days then saying it is ok.

I know the purpose of exploratory testing - but that really should be in addition to rather than instead of scripted repeatable system..

[SussexSeagull]

I know the purpose of exploratory testing - but that really should be in addition to rather than instead of scripted repeatable system..

Exactly. I read one expert who suggested test scripts should be deleted once you are happy with the results so you approach the software with an open mind next time you test it.

I seriously would have been shown the door in basically everywhere I have worked if I suggested that where it not for me never getting in the door when I suggested that at interview.

Experience has taught me another trend will be along in time so don’t panic.

[coolhandluke]

There is a wider issue of being interviewed by someone younger than the shirt you are wearing.