Oh how could we be so stupid?

[vetran]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-drivers.html

Convenience store shelves are being left empty due to shortage in delivery drivers after Covid crisis and Brexit forced workers to return to EU

• Latest research warns problem is escalating and wholesalers are struggling
• Spar wholesaler AF Blakemore has been forced to introduce caps on products
• Trade magazine The Grocer said it understands products are also being returned

maybe if they paid a living wage? Now the cheap EU drivers have left.

Mate of mine is a class 2 driver after illness he ended up on benefits, he sadly had to turn down loads of jobs driving lorries that paid less than benefits.

[LondonManc]

Now we're getting to the real reason the big boys were opposing Brexit. They'll have to pay proper wages.

[NotAllThere]

Under Gordon Brown, there was a proposal for a yearly road tax for HGVs, as EU registered lorries weren't paying towards UK roads when driving on them. The idea was to make UK registered lorries exempt - but that wasn't allowed under EU state-aid rules. What they should have done instead was introduce a yearly road toll for HGVs in the UK, costing exactly the same as the road tax. Then abolished the road tax for UK registered HGVs. I think this was actually proposed by the opposition (as it is how the French got away with raising fuel tax - they raised the fuel tax and abolished road tax), so naturally, it had to be ignored.

So for years it was cheaper for haulage companies to register and run a fleet from some Eastern European country. Never under-estimated the stupidity of politicians.

Anyone think it likely that now wages for drivers will rise?

[LondonManc]

Under Gordon Brown, there was a proposal for a yearly road tax for HGVs, as EU registered lorries weren't paying towards UK roads when driving on them. The idea was to make UK registered lorries exempt - but that wasn't allowed under EU state-aid rules. What they should have done instead was introduce a yearly road toll for HGVs in the UK, costing exactly the same as the road tax. Then abolished the road tax for UK registered HGVs. I think this was actually proposed by the opposition (as it is how the French got away with raising fuel tax - they raised the fuel tax and abolished road tax), so naturally, it had to be ignored.

So for years it was cheaper for haulage companies to register and run a fleet from some Eastern European country. Never under-estimated the stupidity of politicians.

Anyone think it likely that now wages for drivers will rise?

Wages for all should rise. 25 years ago, graduate wage was about £13k pa and a terraced house in a quiet north Manchester street was about £35k.
Graduate wages are now about £25k pa and the terraced houses in the same street are about £200k. Forget the value of the house but it's the cost of the mortgage, let alone the deposit, that are skewing things completely.

[BlasterBates]

Wages for all should rise. 25 years ago, graduate wage was about £13k pa and a terraced house in a quiet north Manchester street was about £35k.
Graduate wages are now about £25k pa and the terraced houses in the same street are about £200k. Forget the value of the house but it's the cost of the mortgage, let alone the deposit, that are skewing things completely.

Go back 35 years however and then the house in Manchester was about £30K, graduate salary was £7K and interest rates were over 10%. That's 10 times earnings for the house plus interest.

The mid 1990's will never be repeated, that was after the biggest housing crash in UK history.

[vetran]

The mid 1990's will never be repeated, that was after the biggest housing crash in UK history. So FAR

FTFY

[NotAllThere]

Wages for all should rise. 25 years ago, graduate wage was about £13k pa and a terraced house in a quiet north Manchester street was about £35k.
Graduate wages are now about £25k pa and the terraced houses in the same street are about £200k. Forget the value of the house but it's the cost of the mortgage, let alone the deposit, that are skewing things completely.

This is a point of view held by poor people. Rich people are being paid far more in real terms than they were 25 years ago. They think it is a good thing. I'm sure if we were one of the them, many of us would agree.

[DealorNoDeal]

Go back 35 years however and then the house in Manchester was about £30K, graduate salary was £7K and interest rates were over 10%. That's 10 times earnings for the house plus interest.

10 times earnings

As it happens, I bought a 2-bed semi on a new build estate, in a not too bad part of Manchester, 34 years ago (1986) for £20k.

I was on about £7k at the time working at the University, which was low for a graduate salary, and just scraped the 3x salary multiple for a 95% mortgage.

I just checked and the same 2-bed semis on that street are now selling for about £170k.

And, BTW, interest rates were not over 10%. They were more like 6%.

[Lance]

Wages for all should rise. 25 years ago, graduate wage was about £13k pa and a terraced house in a quiet north Manchester street was about £35k.
Graduate wages are now about £25k pa and the terraced houses in the same street are about £200k. Forget the value of the house but it's the cost of the mortgage, let alone the deposit, that are skewing things completely.

much as I'd like t throw all sorts of blame around... the housing crisis is purely and simply a lack of supply.
Blame it on planning, NIMBYs and the green belt.

[BlasterBates]

And, BTW, interest rates were not over 10%. They were more like 6%.

Really, my mortgage was 10%, and the mortgage rate shot up after that. Mortgage rates at the beginning and the end of the 1980's were around 15%, and they went down during the mid 1980's but were rarely below 10%. The official statistics show them dropping briefly to 8% in the mid 80's.