Theresa May's speech today

[darmstadt]

I saw that she came out with five tests, you know who she nicked that from? Gordon Brown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_economic_tests

[shaunbhoy]

Hopeless, isn't it. Any attempt to connect the remain faction to reality is doomed to fail, since they simply aren't listening and persist in their pathetic fantasy that the whole exercise can be reversed.

Let's face it, you have no idea how to move forward, so will stick to demanding that someone does it for you since you are bereft of any ideas of your own. As long, of course, that you get the outcome YOU want.

It won't happen: live with it and grow up.

Hear hear.

It is amusing, though getting a tad boring, to listen to their endless gurning and whining about the Referendum vote.

For the most part the quintessential Bremoaner comes across as a needy petulant child whose entire existence, up until June 23rd 2016 in any case, had been clearly mapped out and pre-programmed for them.

The fact that the environment has now changed to one where a certain amount of turbulence is inevitable has sent them into a complete tailspin.

Like cockroaches unveiled after the lifting of a rock, they are desperately scurrying around trying to find a fresh safe space for themselves.

Laughable really.

They have a pathological need for "certainty" in every area of their dreary lives and seem entirely incapable of envisioning a future that may be, in even the slightest way, dynamic and volatile.

Over-indulged children noisily railing against the fact that Mummy and Daddy have decreed that their Bedside comfort light has to be switched off in future.

[Whorty]

Hopeless, isn't it. Any attempt to connect the remain faction to reality is doomed to fail, since they simply aren't listening and persist in their pathetic fantasy that the whole exercise can be reversed.

Let's face it, you have no idea how to move forward, so will stick to demanding that someone does it for you since you are bereft of any ideas of your own. As long, of course, that you get the outcome YOU want.

It won't happen: live with it and grow up.

So you can't define better or what brexit means either. Brexit voters are constantly whining that they aren't getting the brexit they voted for due to traitors and enemies of the people, yet not one of you can define what you actually want or what brexit actually means. After 2 years you still have nothing.

Its actually quite funny watching you squirm and accuse us of moaning when your lot haven't stopped since the vote. Hilarious.

[malvolio]

Like I said. Pointless.

BTW we voted for an escape from rule by Brussels diktat, the ability to set our own trading conditions and not being beholden to the ECJ limiting our legislature. Plus a few other things of less importance.

What, apart from none of the above, do you want? Not that I give a damn

[BlasterBates]

The most positive thing about Brexit is how easily May has managed to pull the wool over a lot of leave voters eyes. The markets are now pricing in a "full reversal" of Brexit as they now expect the UK government to cave into the EU and become a vassal state.

Markets see UK caving into the EU

[PurpleGorilla]

Theresa May's speech today

You go first. You voted out for something better. So, why not define better, or if you can then define the brexit that 17m people supposedly voted for. No, didn't think you could.

Easy.

Better = not being a region within a future USofE.

[PurpleGorilla]

Theresa May's speech today

I saw that she came out with five tests, you know who she nicked that from? Gordon Brown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_economic_tests

Forget Brown & May;

[jamesbrown]

The most positive thing about Brexit is how easily May has managed to pull the wool over a lot of leave voters eyes. The markets are now pricing in a "full reversal" of Brexit as they now expect the UK government to cave into the EU and become a vassal state.

Markets see UK caving into the EU

Tee hee. What's remarkable is the level of consensus about each extreme having been hoodwinked. We're surely in the Goldilocks phase, pre-contact with the "enemy".

By any measure, leaving the single market, leaving the CU, and ending the direct jurisdiction of the ECJ is a "hard" Brexit. It's heartwarming that remain ultras are "relaxed" about this situation. May seems to have, at last, admitted that it will mean reduced market access, which is good.

On the other hand, a lot of her "ambitious managed divergence" is purely theoretical (notice how she didn't even mention it? ). There will be a high degree of alignment to begin with, and any significant divergence will need to be passed by Parliament in full view of the implications for market access. That is "taking back control". It's the softest of hard Brexits.

It's almost touching that you feel leave voters have been hoodwinked about this. If this apple-pie-and-motherhood Brexit were really possible, I think a lot of leave voters would be rather happy.

The reason that remain and leave ultras are both relaxed is actually as follows.

Leave ultras are relaxed because they know this strategy won't survive contact with the EU and they also know that the most likely outcome from that failure to survive contact is the hardest of hard Brexits. As a backstop, they have the numbers to force a leadership election and, potentially, a GE (the Fixed Terms Parliament Act wouldn't prevent this, in practice).

Remain ultras are relaxed because they know this strategy won't survive contact with the EU and they believe the backstop position for failure to survive contact is "full alignment" with the rules of the SM and CU, in keeping with the December agreement on Northern Ireland. They are happy to take two leaps of faith on this, firstly that such a scenario would result in any agreement at all (i.e. the Withdrawal Agreement stands) and, secondly, that Parliament could reassert itself, if not directly then via a GE, i.e. the same backstop as leave ultras.

It's a temporary Mexican standoff among ultras.

Bottom line, either the EU27 are going to accept some "raisin" picking or we're going to get an extreme outcome.

[DaveB]

Like I said. Pointless.

BTW we voted for an escape from rule by Brussels diktat, the ability to set our own trading conditions and not being beholden to the ECJ limiting our legislature. Plus a few other things of less importance.

What, apart from none of the above, do you want? Not that I give a damn

Actually what people voted for was this :



Anything else was just vague claims by both sides with little, if any, basis in fact.

[BlasterBates]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...nless-theresa/

Mrs May used a BBC interview today to suggest she is willing to “negotiate” on the numbers of immigrants allowed into the UK from the EU after Brexit.

It is pretty clear where this is all heading. The negotiations haven't even started yet.

In the end it will be "the end of" freedom of movement in all but name.