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Trying to help a friend out with employment law

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    Trying to help a friend out with employment law

    Bizarre going on as far as I'm concerned.

    A friend's daughter has just received a written warning for not selling enough add ons at a certain food retail outlet.
    This is something that is completely outside of their control - if they've been monitored and failed to offer going large, etc., that's one thing, but if customers aren't buying, there's nothing they can do. How can you lose your job over the customers not wanting to buy more food? The outlet will not be named and nor should it matter.

    Please respect that this is in A/L, not General; the daughter is understandably stressed because she generally enjoys her job. Thanks.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

    #2
    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
    Bizarre going on as far as I'm concerned.

    A friend's daughter has just received a written warning for not selling enough add ons at a certain food retail outlet.
    This is something that is completely outside of their control - if they've been monitored and failed to offer going large, etc., that's one thing, but if customers aren't buying, there's nothing they can do. How can you lose your job over the customers not wanting to buy more food? The outlet will not be named and nor should it matter.

    Please respect that this is in A/L, not General; the daughter is understandably stressed because she generally enjoys her job. Thanks.
    doesn't sound like something they can do. I written warning has a very specific context, and not meeting sales targets is not one of them IMO.
    I recommend joining a union.
    See You Next Tuesday

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      #3
      A friend of mine works in marketing and has loads of tales of the sales guys and it does seem very hire and fire. Not hitting targets is an absolute and they don't appear to care about process when it comes to getting rid.

      You don't say how much weight this activity holds as her normal part of her job but I'd definitely be getting her contract out and going through it with a fine toothed comb. It should have tangible levels in there. Sales levels should factor in the take up from customers using historic figures so should be something like achievable. If not they are probably just trying it on because they are pissed off. If it's her last warning it might be worth a first consultation with a local employment law specialist as well. If non of the above is documented then she will definitely have a case.

      As always with these things though, if they aren't happy to start with and then it goes legal it rarely ends with the claimant carrying on as normal. I'd expect an agreement to leave with a pay out sadly.
      Last edited by northernladuk; 6 April 2021, 13:52.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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        #4
        You - or they - should perhaps have a word with the local CAB. It's surprising how much they know about such things...
        Blog? What blog...?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
          A friend of mine works in marketing and has loads of tales of the sales guys and it does seem very hire and fire. Not hitting targets is an absolute and they don't appear to care about process when it comes to getting rid.

          You don't say how much weight this activity holds as her normal part of her job but I'd definitely be getting her contract out and going through it with a fine toothed comb. It should have tangible levels in there. Sales levels should factor in the take up from customers using historic figures so should be something like achievable. If not they are probably just trying it on because they are pissed off. If it's her last warning it might be worth a first consultation with a local employment law specialist as well. If non of the above is documented then she will definitely have a case.

          As always with these things though, if they aren't happy to start with and then it goes legal it rarely ends with the claimant carrying on as normal. I'd expect an agreement to leave with a pay out sadly.
          You're right. But this post is for retail food. In my mind, maybe incorrectly, this is "do you want fries with that?"
          See You Next Tuesday

          Comment


            #6
            What does her contract of employment (or some other employment based document such as a sales plan) stipulate? Does it mention anything about meeting targets? For this to be valid, i'd have expected pre-defined, achievable and most likely agreed-to (by all parties) targets to have been provided to her.

            As for meeting these targets being completely outside of her control (and looking at it from the employer's side of things), if this is a valid sales target, set at the same level as the targets for other employees, and the other employees are meeting the target, then this employee is perhaps just not cut out for sales. If the employer can show other staff are meeting the targets, this argument is unlikely to fly.

            However, when it comes down to it, if she's been there for less than 2 years, and the employer has it in their mind to get rid of her, this is typically the first step in doing so, and there's very little she'll be able to do about it. Frankly, I'd be advising her to look for another job. This isn't France where strong employee rights are ingrained in law, especially for low tenure level employees.
            Last edited by Paralytic; 6 April 2021, 14:40.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Lance View Post

              You're right. But this post is for retail food. In my mind, maybe incorrectly, this is "do you want fries with that?"
              I think so. Maybe it's different in the UK but in other parts of the world restaurants make most of their profits from drinks for example. Hence - "and which wine would you like with that". I thought it was fairly well known that waiting staff (and your server at MacDonalds) are often under pressure to sell the add on.

              Also "Perhaps you'd like the chef's special" = "Please buy this as it goes out of date tomorrow".



              Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

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                #8
                Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
                I think so. Maybe it's different in the UK but in other parts of the world restaurants make most of their profits from drinks for example. Hence - "and which wine would you like with that". I thought it was fairly well known that waiting staff (and your server at MacDonalds) are often under pressure to sell the add on.

                Also "Perhaps you'd like the chef's special" = "Please buy this as it goes out of date tomorrow".


                at £1.49 for a double cheeseburger, you're probably right. I can't see much profit in that nutritious and delicious snack.
                I often ask for mine with extra gherkin, or some other alteration so they have to make it from fresh. They definitely don't make money that way.
                The fries a revolting anyway.
                See You Next Tuesday

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
                  Bizarre going on as far as I'm concerned.

                  A friend's daughter has just received a written warning for not selling enough add ons at a certain food retail outlet.
                  This is something that is completely outside of their control - if they've been monitored and failed to offer going large, etc., that's one thing, but if customers aren't buying, there's nothing they can do. How can you lose your job over the customers not wanting to buy more food? The outlet will not be named and nor should it matter.

                  Please respect that this is in A/L, not General; the daughter is understandably stressed because she generally enjoys her job. Thanks.
                  Can she get the figures from her colleagues?
                  If she converts 10% and everyone else 40% then there is an issue somewhere
                  If everyone converts 10% then surely the conversion rates are consistent and it is a result of the market/buyers and this action is discriminatory?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Lance View Post

                    at £1.49 for a double cheeseburger, you're probably right. I can't see much profit in that nutritious and delicious snack.
                    I often ask for mine with extra gherkin, or some other alteration so they have to make it from fresh. They definitely don't make money that way.
                    The fries a revolting anyway.
                    I went to a very posh restaurant in Davos with my wife for our anniversery a few years ago. Our meal cost £250. The sommalier was visibly upset when we declined wine. (I was teetotal then) - still it was £10 for a litre of water. Probably with the carafe filled from the stream outside the restaurant.
                    Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

                    Comment

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