No To Retro Tax - Ongoing battle against S58 FA2008

[Fireship]

APN - to pay or not to pay...

Is there any benefit in paying an APN for the years in question?? I’m not sure there is……

All non-payment does is incur a surcharge for non-compliance which probably isn’t collectable without a legal ruling in the matter of the disputed tax – note it’s a surcharge for the years in question not a penalty and therefore nothing is collectable unless there is a ruling against us.

If a penalty were to be imposed (applies to APN’s issued for tax year 2010/2011 onwards) then there would be an outstanding debt regardless of any ruling for or against the disputed tax position. Whether immediate collection could/would be enforced is uncertain as CC/FS24 implies penalties will increase over time and interest will apply to any unpaid surcharges or penalties. Regardless that appears to be a very different position to the one we find ourselves in…..

So assuming you can’t pay the final bill and believe we have a good chance of winning, are you any worse off by not paying the APN? I don’t believe so? Legal may well take a different view but it would be interesting to find out.

[slogger]

Is there any benefit in paying an APN for the years in question?? I’m not sure there is……

All non-payment does is incur a surcharge for non-compliance which probably isn’t collectable without a legal ruling in the matter of the disputed tax – note it’s a surcharge for the years in question not a penalty and therefore nothing is collectable unless there is a ruling against us.

If a penalty were to be imposed (applies to APN’s issued for tax year 2010/2011 onwards) then there would be an outstanding debt regardless of any ruling for or against the disputed tax position. Whether immediate collection could/would be enforced is uncertain as CC/FS24 implies penalties will increase over time and interest will apply to any unpaid surcharges or penalties. Regardless that appears to be a very different position to the one we find ourselves in…..

So assuming you can’t pay the final bill and believe we have a good chance of winning, are you any worse off by not paying the APN? I don’t believe so? Legal may well take a different view but it would be interesting to find out.

I think this has been asked a few times - answer seems to be to pay it if you can, even if/when we win we're still liable for 5% penalties for non payment of apn - unbelievable I know.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

APN and penalty

See here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...n-penalty.html

[mrkitchen]

Isn't it a surcharge not a penalty ?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Is there any benefit in paying an APN for the years in question?? I’m not sure there is……

All non-payment does is incur a surcharge for non-compliance which probably isn’t collectable without a legal ruling in the matter of the disputed tax – note it’s a surcharge for the years in question not a penalty and therefore nothing is collectable unless there is a ruling against us.

If a penalty were to be imposed (applies to APN’s issued for tax year 2010/2011 onwards) then there would be an outstanding debt regardless of any ruling for or against the disputed tax position. Whether immediate collection could/would be enforced is uncertain as CC/FS24 implies penalties will increase over time and interest will apply to any unpaid surcharges or penalties. Regardless that appears to be a very different position to the one we find ourselves in…..

So assuming you can’t pay the final bill and believe we have a good chance of winning, are you any worse off by not paying the APN? I don’t believe so? Legal may well take a different view but it would be interesting to find out.

APNs create an enforceable debt.

How far HMRC will go to enforce them is currently unknown.

But I can't see them just letting it drop if you refuse to pay.

[Resolute B]

We simply cannot trust HMRC

Even if they say they are willing to negotiate a settlement.

On 16 May 2007 HMRC wrote to me saying this. (Many of you will have received the same letter)

"Following advice HMRC now intends taking a number of representative cases forward for hearing at the Special Commissioners and possibly beyond to the Courts to establish the income is chargeable.

At this point I am writing to you to see if you are prepared to await and accept the decision of the Special Commissioners/Court to settle your enquiry."

A few months later they were working on BN66.

If we're not careful they will stitch us up again.

Time to pull those pistols not to whistle Dixie

[Fireship]

An APN is only valid if the arrangement was notifiable under DOTAS.

DOTAS was introduced in 2004, hence why APNs can only apply to years 2004/5 onwards.

However, the 2004 DOTAS regime was limited in scope. It was extended in 2006, applying from 2006/7 onwards.

So, there will be circumstances where a scheme was notifiable in 2006/7 but not in 2004/5 or 2005/6. Montpelier are saying this is the case with the DTA scheme.

In addition, keep an eye on your inbox regards 2006/07 and 2007/08

[Fireship]

See here:
http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...n-penalty.html

Which refers to penalties not surcharges – there can be no surcharge applied on a non-existent debt should we finally win in court.

So surely a surcharge would be stood over whereas a penalty would technically become an enforceable debt?

[elpinar]

In addition, keep an eye on your inbox regards 2006/07 and 2007/08

do we know how long they have to answer our letters re withdrawal ?

[reckless]

Let's get going

Time to pull those pistols not to whistle Dixie

I totally agree with this and all the other positive responses posted over the last couple of days. There is window of opportunity here, Robbers and Crooks are on the back foot, lying through their teeth and resorting to ever more ridiculous countermeasures. In the absence of a government meantime, now is the time to act, before they get the chance to lie to their new political masters and get some new draconian retrospective powers passed in the next finance act. Torpedos eins, zwei, drei und vier, los!