No To Retro Tax - Ongoing battle against S58 FA2008

[JaredM]

The problem here seems to be that HMRC know where we are, but have used their IT expertise to send APNs elsewhere.

If HMRC acknowledge there was a problem with serving notices then they have to re-issue everyone (since they can't work out who has and has not been served). And if they call you, everyone ought to just say 'yes, we've received correspondence from HMRC' and promptly hang up.

It gets more interesting: if they re-issue everyone then the people who were correctly issued in the first place could have a genuine claim of harassment by HMRC.

[webberg]

If HMRC acknowledge there was a problem with serving notices then they have to re-issue everyone (since they can't work out who has and has not been served). And if they call you, everyone ought to just say 'yes, we've received correspondence from HMRC' and promptly hang up.

It gets more interesting: if they re-issue everyone then the people who were correctly issued in the first place could have a genuine claim of harassment by HMRC.

Unfortunately I think the above is incorrect.

1. HMRC do not acknowledge that there is a problem in serving notices. They say that the follow up call is to ensure the notice has arrived, that their "customer" understands what it means and what happens next.

2. If you fail to answer HMRC's questions fully then you are playing with fire. It's fine to answer the question asked and nothing else but it's not good to mislead them.

3. I doubt that failure of an administrative process would ever be held to be "harassment". It might be incompetent but if it's not malicious then there's no claim. HMRC has an Ombudsman service for those who feel they are being unfairly pursued or persecuted. The Ombudsman finds for taxpayers regularly but not in great numbers. I forget the ratio of claims to success but it's very low.

Bottom line.

Don't rely upon errors in compliance systems or possible claims for unfair treatment, should you get an APN. Deal with it by either joining a JR challenge, making a representation personally or via an adviser, paying it - if necessary asking for time to pay.

[Morlock]

If HMRC acknowledge there was a problem with serving notices then they have to re-issue everyone (since they can't work out who has and has not been served). And if they call you, everyone ought to just say 'yes, we've received correspondence from HMRC' and promptly hang up.

It gets more interesting: if they re-issue everyone then the people who were correctly issued in the first place could have a genuine claim of harassment by HMRC.

I think a better approach might be: "I don't believe that you are HMRC. HMRC have never phoned me before about anything, so why would they be phoning me now. I think you might be a con-artist trying to phish for personal details and I don't want to talk to you. If you are really HMRC, please send me a letter. Goodbye."

Alternatively, you could try just repeating the word "wibble" until they hang up.

[jeanvaljean]

Rumour?

If HMRC acknowledge there was a problem with serving notices then they have to re-issue everyone (since they can't work out who has and has not been served). And if they call you, everyone ought to just say 'yes, we've received correspondence from HMRC' and promptly hang up.

It gets more interesting: if they re-issue everyone then the people who were correctly issued in the first place could have a genuine claim of harassment by HMRC.

I can't believe there's an iota of truth in the rumour that NTRT has had a sleeper in HMRC's IT department for years who has recently become active.

Hi HMRC - maybe you'd better check - contractors and permanent.

[GBHuhd]

Unfortunately I think the above is incorrect.

Bottom line.

Don't rely upon errors in compliance systems or possible claims for unfair treatment, should you get an APN. Deal with it by either joining a JR challenge, making a representation personally or via an adviser, paying it - if necessary asking for time to pay.

In my case i'm not trying to avoid..ahem..the APN, i've got the pre-APN so i'm on the hit list, i'm just wondering what i should do if another month passes and still no sign of the APN...

[nevergiveup]

In my case i'm not trying to avoid..ahem..the APN, i've got the pre-APN so i'm on the hit list, i'm just wondering what i should do if another month passes and still no sign of the APN...

Personally I'd call HRMC and ask them to expedite the APN. I'd also ask them to back date it as I wouldn't want anyone in HMRC getting into any trouble.

[elpinar]

well i got my apns are coming in 1 - 4 weeks letter 5 weeks ago ....

nothing since!!!

[webberg]

In my case i'm not trying to avoid..ahem..the APN, i've got the pre-APN so i'm on the hit list, i'm just wondering what i should do if another month passes and still no sign of the APN...

Nothing - not your problem.

There seems to be no consistency between the "notice that we're going to send you a notice" and the arrival of the notice.

I've seen the gap as short as a week and as long as 12 weeks.

Not yet seen an APN issued before the pre notice but it wouldn't surprise me.

[MrX]

I too have recently moved house and am concerned that our friends with the time machine may well misplace my new address details. Can someone who has been issued an APN kindly confirm that this is visible in some way on the online self assessment web pages? Ta.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Two NTRT Newsletters coming

The first is just to remind everyone to make sure their profile on the website is up to date.

This will be followed next week by the main newsletter with full details of TAA (the agency argument/George).