umbrella Paranoia

[Paralytic]

That's something I keep for sales conversations - it's not something I would reveal in public.

I was asking cojak, who said that as a statement of fact "It's known that the FCSA has dodgy umbrellas on its books.". I've not seen any evidence that any FCSA accredited umbrellas are "dodgy" but admit I've not reviewed the whole list.

Umbrellaphant - yes, on the face of it, it's hard to see how the meet the "advertised" FCSA requirements (as per the website), but that does not make them dodgy.

If asked how they gained accreditation, I imagine the FCSA would say something along the lines of "That's something I keep for sales conversations - it's not something I would reveal in public."

It'll be interesting to hear if anyone can actually point to any that are actually "dodgy".

[lucyclarityumbrella]

I have had some fun though looking at umbrella accounts at Companies House and noting those with a payroll under 3 million, having no connection to other companies but still deducting the apprenticeship levy from PAYE.

I have seen it aswell, some companies have been cashing in on the levy figures, which can be substantial. I am guessing that some didn't want to have to explain it when it does finally kick in, but not right at all.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

And the website claims they are "fully IR35 compliant" - getting really bored reading that one.

The irony when IR35 doesnt apply to brollies!

[eek]

I was asking cojak, who said that as a statement of fact "It's known that the FCSA has dodgy umbrellas on its books.". I've not seen any evidence that any FCSA accredited umbrellas are "dodgy" but admit I've not reviewed the whole list.

Umbrellaphant - yes, on the face of it, it's hard to see how the meet the "advertised" FCSA requirements (as per the website), but that does not make them dodgy.

If asked how they gained accreditation, I imagine the FCSA would say something along the lines of "That's something I keep for sales conversations - it's not something I would reveal in public."

It'll be interesting to hear if anyone can actually point to any that are actually "dodgy".

I could but I can't do that on a public site that I don't own.

Equally it's hard to prove due to the techniques some of them use and I really wouldn't want to reveal that technique in public.

[malvolio]

I could but I can't do that on a public site that I don't own.

Equally it's hard to prove due to the techniques some of them use and I really wouldn't want t reveal that technique in public.

So we'll take your word for it then...

Actually you are probably quite correct. However, my point is not that Umbrellaphant - or anyone else - is provably dodgy, it's that having them on its list rather demonstrates just how pathetic FCSA accreditation really is. Would you trust your income to an organisation with £1700 in the bank?

Contractors that use umbrellas need government-level verification that their chosen company is viable and legal and properly accredited before they can trade. Had they done that 10 years ago when this all came to prominence, then the loan charge debacle would never have happened.

[eek]

So we'll take your word for it then...

Actually you are probably quite correct. However, my point is not that Umbrellaphant - or anyone else - is provably dodgy, it's that having them on its list rather demonstrates just how pathetic FCSA accreditation really is. Would you trust your income to an organisation with £1700 in the bank?

Contractors that use umbrellas need government-level verification that their chosen company is viable and legal and properly accredited before they can trade. Had they done that 10 years ago when this all came to prominence, then the loan charge debacle would never have happened.

You have a PM so you can see why I won't mention it online - it's designed to be hard to catch and prove.

[northernladuk]

They're all a shambles.

Perfect example - the FCSA say a pre-requisite of application is a minimum of 2 years trading; yet there's an umbrella on there that's accredited yet only incorporated last year.

I know a few smaller umbrellas have tried to gain accreditation, yet have been told no due to the above - seems like another case of who you know, and not what you know.

And the fact they need X numbers on their books but they've successfully shut down any possibility of getting those numbers by convincing agents to go with FCSA accredited companys. What a fantastic way to screw your own industry. Ah hang on, board of large umbrella owners.. of course, that was the plan all along. Silly me.

[ladymuck]

The irony when IR35 doesnt apply to brollies!

That's what makes them compliant

[eek]

That's what makes them compliant

It's probably will be a tick box that agencies and contractors look for so you put it on the site.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

It's probably will be a tick box that agencies and contractors look for so you put it on the site.

Anyone do some SEO for our site then? Obviously missing a trick