Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[malvolio]

and how often do they get what they want once it gets to a court?

In court, quite a lot. At the FTTs not quite as much. Snag is this may not be a subject for the FTT

[missinggreenfields]

and how often do they get what they want once it gets to a court?

If the contractor feels that they have been wrongly assessed by the tool then they can go to tribunal (and then court) - but by that stage they will already have paid tax and NI and be fighting to recover the income tax already paid. And that's assuming they win, of course.

[bobspud]

In court, quite a lot. At the FTTs not quite as much. Snag is this may not be a subject for the FTT

In which case it becomes a humongous case of restrictive trade practices...

UK law already states that supplying goods and services to the UK Government must be performed on a level playing field. If HMRC make it impossible for an SME to supply work at a cost effective price due to punitive tax treatment compared to the larger players then there is a case to answer.

They might wish it was a tribunal if that happens...

Especially given the laws on paying compensation to the market for wrongly awarded government contracts.

[malvolio]

In which case it becomes a humongous case of restrictive trade practices...

UK law already states that supplying goods and services to the UK Government must be performed on a level playing field. If HMRC make it impossible for an SME to supply work at a cost effective price due to punitive tax treatment compared to the larger players then there is a case to answer.

They might wish it was a tribunal if that happens...

Especially given the laws on paying compensation to the market for wrongly awarded government contracts.

They're not stopping you supplying. All they're doing is deducting a (possibly) unfair amount of tax from your invoice. And cost isn't a factor: they are aware that the big boys charge 100% markups and still use contractors to deliver the skills necessary. Come to that I've seen a lot more PS gigs at £200 a day more than they used to offer lately.

The "wrongly awarded" bit doesn't fly either: that's an EU limitation and we don't' really care about them any more.

[bobspud]

No the law is still a statute on the books and contracts will be awarded based on it. The law may well be withdrawn at some point but that is a long way off. Every piece of work that is awarded between the insertion of the HMRC crap and the repeal of EU law will be subject to it.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/public-s...urement-policy

This governs the award of every contract the UK government signs. If they fail to follow it you as a supplier can challenge them and they will probably have to pay you. I have heard of serious money changing hands thanks to a cowboy stunts trying to subvert contracts to the "right" party...

[youngguy]

Alternatively...

DWP will need to confirm that they are using PSCs (to use their term). DWP will ask the consultancy. The consultancy will ask the two initial questions that are asked to the contractors. The contractors "fail" those two questions. .

That's my understanding looking at the doc.

Putting a PSC through the DoS framework doesn't change the fact they are a PSC and therefore the closest engaging 'agent' has to collect the tax . .....or have I missed something?

[eek]

That's my understanding looking at the doc.

Putting a PSC through the DoS framework doesn't change the fact they are a PSC and therefore the closest engaging 'agent' has to collect the tax . .....or have I missed something?

Yep, you are missing the CLOne guidance document with flowchart...

[bobspud]

By the way there are some more documents that are worth looking at...

Contingent Labour ONE | Crown Commercial Service

ConsultancyONE | Crown Commercial Service

This one is quite useful...

http://ccs-agreements.cabinetoffice....%20%281%29.pdf

[youngguy]

Yep, you are missing the CLOne guidance document with flowchart...

That doesn't talk about PSCs though does it?

I thought it outlined the different framework options and implied that cl one would almost certainly be caught by the new rules ....but that doesn't mean a PSC via DoS (or G cloud) is not caught by defacto? I haven't seen anything that shoes a direct relationship between the procurement framework and the new rules.

[northernladuk]

That doesn't talk about PSCs though does it?

I thought it outlined the different framework options and implied that cl one would almost certainly be caught by the new rules ....but that doesn't mean a PSC via DoS (or G cloud) is not caught by defacto? I haven't seen anything that shoes a direct relationship between the procurement framework and the new rules.

Yeah but they've taken steps to close that down and put all contingent resourcing through other channels. People shouldn't be using GCloud for this type of resourcing anymore. I am sure it's not watertight but you might as well discount it for now. Unless you mean PSC via a consultancy offering GCloud services which is what we've been discussing recently.