Just received this from our contact at HMRC

[b0redom]

Accommodation is seen as being part of travel and subsistence

What about if I'm working in, say Farnborough, and I need to go to Wales for a week to support some server installs. Assuming I'm IR35 caught (or working through a brolly for convenience), I realise I can't claim for my commute to Farnborough, but if ClientCo say that I am needed onsite in Wales, can I claim for that?

[mudskipper]

What about if I'm working in, say Farnborough, and I need to go to Wales for a week to support some server installs. Assuming I'm IR35 caught (or working through a brolly for convenience), I realise I can't claim for my commute to Farnborough, but if ClientCo say that I am needed onsite in Wales, can I claim for that?

In the consultation doc, it referred (I paraphrase) to the main place of work for the employment, so your trip to Wales would be allowed.

[b0redom]

Top banana. Thanks. I'm LTD (and outside IR35) anyway, just interested.

[VectraMan]

If you are using a (conventional) brolly you are effectivly IR35 caught anyway.

Except now there's a difference. You can be outside IR35 but paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but still able to claim T&S, and inside IR35 paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but not able to claim T&S. Umbrella contractors probably have no idea of their IR35 status because it's not relevant to them, so will they all now need to get contract reviews and start worrying about going to Christmas parties and all the other nonsense? Will the umbrella companies become liable for all this?

[WordIsBond]

So, in other words, we flew a kite, it was shot down by the UK Contractor Air Force, so now we are off to Toys R Us to buy another one, with a laser. See you in April...?

No. It was shot down by UK PLC, who said, "Georgie boy, if you make us put our contractors on payroll you will never be prime minister, and we may even fund a new party since Labour is committing slow suicide and you've become new Labour. We've about had it with all your innovations with dividend tax, living wage, apprenticeship levies, etc. Every new idea you come up with we're the ones you expect to pay."

So their bright idea of putting contractors on payroll went down in flames, and they don't have any other bright ideas.

That and the fact that they may have finally realised with the dividend tax they've already achieved half of what they wanted to gain anyway.

But they have to do something about ER because it lets people sidestep the dividend tax on a nice little sum. And they don't want to zap ER entirely because they want it there to encourage entrepreneurs. And it's tricky. People invested, took risks, with the understanding that ER was going to be there and that they would be able to do really nicely out of it if they succeeded. Now, if they take it away, those people get shafted. So it is a little tricky to take it away entirely for existing companies, so they need longer to figure out what they will do.

Which makes everything very awkward. If only they could define a PSC in legislation, they could take ER away for PSCs. It's quite the problem for them, because surely they should be able to grab that £450 million or whatever it is one way or another.

[TheFaQQer]

Except now there's a difference. You can be outside IR35 but paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but still able to claim T&S, and inside IR35 paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but not able to claim T&S. Umbrella contractors probably have no idea of their IR35 status because it's not relevant to them, so will they all now need to get contract reviews and start worrying about going to Christmas parties and all the other nonsense? Will the umbrella companies become liable for all this?

If you're using an umbrella, then IR35 doesn't apply at all because you're an employee.

So there's nothing else for the employee to worry about getting contract reviews etc. (they could do, of course, for a commercial review), and nothing else for the umbrella to be liable for.

[VectraMan]

No. It was shot down by UK PLC, who said, "Georgie boy, if you make us put our contractors on payroll you will never be prime minister, and we may even fund a new party since Labour is committing slow suicide and you've become new Labour.

Probably more likely that it was a work of complete fiction in the first place.

[northernladuk]

In the consultation doc, it referred (I paraphrase) to the main place of work for the employment, so your trip to Wales would be allowed.

I was hoping there would be something in the consultation about a pot of money people can claim from for having to travel across the border to Wales to work.. A bit like the Victim Support thing.

[No2politics]

I was hoping there would be something in the consultation about a pot of money people can claim from for having to travel across the border to Wales to work.. A bit like the Victim Support thing.

You must be happy with the announcement or lack of it today, after all your doomsday posts!?

[WordIsBond]

Probably more likely that it was a work of complete fiction in the first place.

Maybe. There were some interesting parallels between the leaks and the discussion document.

That could mean the leaks were just someone misinterpreting the discussion document. But it could also mean they were floating a trial balloon to see the response, which is a tried and tested government technique.

And it would be strange for both the DM and the Guardian to make the same mistakes at the same time.