Just received this from our contact at HMRC

[Snarf]

And it would be strange for both the DM and the Guardian to make the same mistakes at the same time.

It only takes one news source to get things wrong and the rest to rip it off...
I suspect the mail did their usual trick of ripping it off the guardian, making it about the bbc/refugees/house prices and then re-published it.

[TheFaQQer]

It only takes one news source to get things wrong and the rest to rip it off...
I suspect the mail did their usual trick of ripping it off the guardian, making it about the bbc/refugees/house prices and then re-published it.

There were differences in details between the two, that were published at the same time.

[TheFaQQer]

Am I right in thinking that this isn't saying you can't pay t&s through your company... Just that t&s will not be a tax deductible expense?

Correct - it will be a benefit in kind to the employee, who will have to pay PAYE on the value.

[Snarf]

Correct - it will be a benefit in kind to the employee, who will have to pay PAYE on the value.

Really?

That seems a bit mental given as a permie I wouldn't have paid any of this myself, the the exception of traveling to the office. If they wanted me at another site for a few days they would have to pay for fuel food and accommodation.

So to get this straight in my head... I travel to liverpool five days a week to a client I stay in a hotel Monday, Tues, Wed, Thurs night and myCo books and pays for the hotel I (The employee) have to pay PAYE on that amount despite not having received any funds from the company for it into my personal account..

And if MyCo pays me for fuel usage to get to liverpool (not from the hotel to client but home to liverpool) I'd have to pay PAYE on that again despite not recieving a benefit - using a private car to get their so actually losing out on the deal (if taxed) due to wear and tear costs)

So its being taxed twice - once as company profit (as its not a tax deductible expense) and again as a BIK?

Im sure I must be misunderstanding that.

I know this has probably been covered else where... Ill go and have a read about now.

[jamesbrown]

Really?

This is about tax relief on T&S relating to home-to-work travel (ordinary commuting), nothing else. Anything that would ordinarily attract relief as an employee will still attract relief. Additionally, as an umbrella employee, you'll have to wait for the draft clauses in FB 2016 (9 December) to establish any qualifying criteria, such as SDC, that would allow tax relief on H2W travel. As a director of a PSC, you'll also have to wait for those draft clauses, but the AS deferred to the Intermediaries legislation as the qualifying condition.

[WordIsBond]

There were differences in details between the two, that were published at the same time.

Right. Enough differences to demonstrate either independence or pretty amazing incompetence, probably not plagiarism. Enough similarities to demonstrate a similar source.

That doesn't prove it was intentionally floating a trial balloon. The source may have just been someone talking out of turn. But someone was thinking along the lines in those articles.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Right. Enough differences to demonstrate either independence or pretty amazing incompetence, probably not plagiarism. Enough similarities to demonstrate a similar source.

That doesn't prove it was intentionally floating a trial balloon. The source may have just been someone talking out of turn. But someone was thinking along the lines in those articles.

I think it likely that it was an IR35 consultation document that was leaked - they usually contain ideas that HMG are floating

[Contreras]

If we all started to bill clients as rate plus Expenses like it was in the old days, would they not be able to claim back the expenses as a true cost to their business. They would not be caught by any intermediate legislation.

Except you would still be liable for tax & NI on the BiK. It doesn't matter who pays the expense (and it's always been this way).

Am I right in thinking that this isn't saying you can't pay t&s through your company... Just that t&s will not be a tax deductible expense?

Exactly.

[jamesbrown]

I think it likely that it was an IR35 consultation document that was leaked - they usually contain ideas that HMG are floating

FWIW, I think that's exactly right, but I also think the hacks that reported this were out of their depth and that the APSCo interpretation is much more likely, i.e. one month then a test.

[eek]

In the being sneaky department of HMRC within their email response to my consultation letter.

Thank very much for your previous interest in the consultation exercise for employment intermediaries and relief on travel and subsistence.


As you may be aware, the government confirmed at last week's Autumn Statement it will legislate to restrict relief for travel and subsistence for those engaged through an employment intermediary. The following text was included in the Blue Book, which can be accessed using the attached link:

3.20 Employment intermediaries and tax relief for travel and subsistence – As confirmed at Summer Budget 2015, the government will legislate to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence expenses for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company. Following consultation, relief will be restricted for individuals working through personal service companies where the intermediaries legislation applies. This change will take effect from 6 April 2016.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...Accessible.pdf

The proposals have been amended so that those operating through personal service companies will only be effected by the new measure when the intermediaries legislation applies to the contract. Those operating through other employment intermediaries, will be effected when they are under supervision, direction or control in the manner they carry out their work.