Just received this from our contact at HMRC

[Yonmons]

The removal of T&S effectively puts the final nail in the coffin for umbrella companies. Many brollies will of course start the process of trying to move their clients to PSC's. Many will, so they may salvage something, but most will go permie or via the agency.

.

I already got an email off my Brollly "Paystream" last night with a survey, based on the loss of T&S, asking basically if they were considered essentail to me Answer YES, and Have I considered a PSC.

Standing by for a phone call !

I will ride this GIG I am on out until April then thats me done, no more 108 miles a day round trip commute, or away from home 13hrs with 9hrs on site.

local work only accepted from now on.

[Waldorf]

I already got an email off my Brollly "Paystream" last night with a survey, based on the loss of T&S, asking basically if they were considered essentail to me Answer YES, and Have I considered a PSC.

Standing by for a phone call !

I will ride this GIG I am on out until April then thats me done, no more 108 miles a day round trip commute, or away from home 13hrs with 9hrs on site.

local work only accepted from now on.

I guessed this would/will happen. By pushing you towards a limited company they are at risk of breaking the MSC rules, however not very surprising as Paystream were a MSC before the rules changed.

[SueEllen]

I already got an email off my Brollly "Paystream" last night with a survey, based on the loss of T&S, asking basically if they were considered essentail to me Answer YES, and Have I considered a PSC.

Standing by for a phone call !

I will ride this GIG I am on out until April then thats me done, no more 108 miles a day round trip commute, or away from home 13hrs with 9hrs on site.

local work only accepted from now on.

Set up a limited and use one of the accountants that are linked to this site.

As long as you keep on top of your expenses weekly and get your contracts reviewed you will be fine.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Cheers With @15k annual spent on accommodation to support long distance contracting, its a deciding factor for me.


If we all started to bill clients as rate plus Expenses like it was in the old days, would they not be able to claim back the expenses as a true cost to their business. They would not be caught by any intermediate legislation. Id then be happy to use umbrella.

I think that's a likely outcome

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Except now there's a difference. You can be outside IR35 but paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but still able to claim T&S, and inside IR35 paying all your PAYE with an umbrella but not able to claim T&S. Umbrella contractors probably have no idea of their IR35 status because it's not relevant to them, so will they all now need to get contract reviews and start worrying about going to Christmas parties and all the other nonsense? Will the umbrella companies become liable for all this?

It will be the umbrella company's responsibility to decide whether or not T&S will be allowable which will mean getting a statement from the end client to hold on file for the contractor

[MarkT]

Everyone is being incredibly down on this, it was more than a let off.

The statement in the blue book doesn't refer to SDC, but it did in the consultation, it doesn't any more. This is good news, perhaps they listened, the fact that they said that only those caught by IR35 are to be denied T&S is better than we expected.

They may well suggest some insane draconian IR35 test in the new consultation, which wouldn't actually be launched until April 16 anyway, but as they've had to water down the T&S legislation, I'd expect them to water than down too.

I'd expect that at some point in 2017, some kind of IR35 restriction will come in, I can't see how SDC could form the crux of that legislation, it's more likely to be a time based thing, 6 or 12 months maybe and still contestable in the courts.

Yeah maybe I'm overly optimistic, but at least we get another 18 months+ of the good stuff

[jamesbrown]

Everyone is being incredibly down on this, it was more than a let off.

The statement in the blue book doesn't refer to SDC, but it did in the consultation, it doesn't any more. This is good news, perhaps they listened, the fact that they said that only those caught by IR35 are to be denied T&S is better than we expected.

They may well suggest some insane draconian IR35 test in the new consultation, which wouldn't actually be launched until April 16 anyway, but as they've had to water down the T&S legislation, I'd expect them to water than down too.

I'd expect that at some point in 2017, some kind of IR35 restriction will come in, I can't see how SDC could form the crux of that legislation, it's more likely to be a time based thing, 6 or 12 months maybe and still contestable in the courts.

Yeah maybe I'm overly optimistic, but at least we get another 18 months+ of the good stuff

I think you're jumping the gun a little. To quote from the Blue book:

3.20 Employment intermediaries and tax relief for travel and subsistence – As confirmed at Summer Budget 2015, the government will legislate to restrict tax relief for travel and subsistence expenses for workers engaged through an employment intermediary, such as an umbrella company or a personal service company. Following consultation, relief will be restricted for individuals working through personal service companies where the intermediaries legislation applies. This change will take effect from 6 April 2016.

The Intermediaries legislation is quoted specifically in the context of PSCs. The wording is carefully crafted. We'll have to see what rules apply to umbrellas when they publish the draft clauses on 9 December, but I predict that it will be SDC, as this already applies in other contexts and remains their desired approach. This wording will give some indication of their intentions w/r to IR35 too.

Also, you're wrong on the timing of the consultation. This will be announced soon and will be concluded before the next Budget for an announcement in that context, although I agree that implementation wouldn't then happen until April 2017.

[No2politics]

I agree markT could have been a lot worse!

[MarkT]

I think you're jumping the gun a little. To quote from the Blue book:



The Intermediaries legislation is quoted specifically in the context of PSCs. The wording is carefully crafted. We'll have to see what rules apply to umbrellas when they publish the draft clauses on 9 December, but I predict that it will be SDC, as this already applies in other contexts and remains their desired approach. This wording will give some indication of their intentions w/r to IR35 too.

Also, you're wrong on the timing of the consultation. This will be announced soon and will be concluded before the next Budget for an announcement in that context, although I agree that implementation wouldn't then happen until April 2017.

Yeah - I might well be, but I've a feeling it will never be that bad

[Snarf]

Am I right in thinking that this isn't saying you can't pay t&s through your company... Just that t&s will not be a tax deductible expense?