Reply to: Missed Holiday Pay on 2019

[lucyclarityumbrella]

And yet under the False Self Employment Legislation then if using an agency you cannot be self-employed! Classic!

[NotAllThere]

It looks like he was an employee of the agency, which wasn't operating as a brolly. With a nonsensical clause in the contract saying even though he's an employee he's self employed.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

If you had chosen to accrue holiday pay, then any funds held as holiday should be repaid at the payroll year end - simple as! Sorry bit too late to the party as it has been paid back, but hopefully that helps for people in future.

[WTFH]

Second I'm saying I'm a bit furious over the concept of forfeiting money. How can such a clause be considered fair ?

That's basically how all permanent jobs work.
The company gives you so many days off per year, it's up to you to take them.
You work for them PAYE, they give you a net salary at the end of each month.

[Rasol]

I wouldn't be mocking someone's common sense when you are struggling so hard to understand how you get paid tens of thousands of pounds.

Ok, to be clear, I wasn't mocking anyone. I meant no disrespect to anyone. The fault is mine. I was just wondering why is there no automated system to pay a worker holiday pay automatically.
Second I'm saying I'm a bit furious over the concept of forfeiting money. How can such a clause be considered fair ?

Anyways, they have been nice enough to pay it back to me.

Thank God.

[Rasol]

Thank you very much for your help,

Have a good evening

[northernladuk]

You are an (no rights) agency worker on a zero hour contract. You are not self employed as if you were you would be being paid gross and would need to have registered with HMRC and file a tax return.

And you are most certainly not a contractor.

What a farce this is lol.

[eek]

2.2 For the avoidance of doubt, these Terms shall not give rise to a contract of employment between the Employment Business and the Temporary Worker. The Temporary Worker is engaged as a self-employed worker, although the Employment Business is required to made statutory deductions from the Temporary Worker’s remuneration in accordance with Clause 4.1.
5.8 None of the provisions of this clause regarding statutory entitlement to paid leave shall affect the Temporary Worker’s status as a self-employed worker.


So that's how it ends, there is nothing to be done. I am losing 28 days of pay because I forgot a section in my contract something. I guess all I got to do now is find myself another agency/umbrella.
Still thinking about what the government says about it: "a disincentive to not take leaves" >> "Take leaves "

You can't be self-employed if you are being paid via PAYE. At most you are an agency worker on a zero minimum hour contract regardless of what the contract you didn't read until it was too late said.

Being honest there is only so much we can do to help people and it's clearly too late for anyone to help you. Go and see what a lawyer says but I think it will be a case of self inflicted no sympathy as:-

1) You should have taken holiday
2) Money was there to ensure you continued to get paid when you were on holiday
3) the fact you didn't take the holiday isn't anyone's fault apart from yours.

[Rasol]

Rasol, we need to first understand what your employment status is.

Who is your employer on your payslip?

And, without giving figures, what deductions are taken from your payslip (eg, does it mention Umbrella Margin, or Employment Costs/Employee NI)?

Who does your self-assessment? How is that completed? As an employee or as a self-employed person?

Who is your contract with?

Do you work a set amount of hours for a set wage each week/month or do you complete timesheets and the client is invoiced for the time you work?

Payslip ? It is written Carbon60 Ltd in big bold letter and the client company is nowhere on the payslip.
Deductions: Tax - N I - NOW EE Pension
My self-assessment ? If I paye as I earn PAYE I don't have to deal with self assessment.

That's why I say I am a contractor with the status of self-employed.
The way I understand it is: I have to pay tax as an employee and I can be sacked as not an employee.

Contract: GE renewable energies
I complete timesheets.

All the best.

[Paralytic]

Rasol, we need to first understand what your employment status is.

Who is your employer on your payslip?

And, without giving figures, what deductions are taken from your payslip (eg, does it mention Umbrella Margin, or Employment Costs/Employee NI)?

Who does your self-assessment? How is that completed? As an employee or as a self-employed person?

Who is your contract with?

Do you work a set amount of hours for a set wage each week/month or do you complete timesheets and the client is invoiced for the time you work?

[Rasol]

By the sounds of it you are on the Agency's payroll so it's not an umbrella and if you are on PAYE you are not self employed.

As for the rest umbrella companies may have processes in place to check for unused holiday as they deal with such small margins that unpaid holiday pay would be obvious, for agencies it will just be a small amount of additional profit that they wouldn't notice and they probably wouldn't have encountered the issue often enough to identify that they need to have a report to catch the issue.

2.2 For the avoidance of doubt, these Terms shall not give rise to a contract of employment between the Employment Business and the Temporary Worker. The Temporary Worker is engaged as a self-employed worker, although the Employment Business is required to made statutory deductions from the Temporary Worker’s remuneration in accordance with Clause 4.1.
5.8 None of the provisions of this clause regarding statutory entitlement to paid leave shall affect the Temporary Worker’s status as a self-employed worker.


So that's how it ends, there is nothing to be done. I am losing 28 days of pay because I forgot a section in my contract something. I guess all I got to do now is find myself another agency/umbrella.
Still thinking about what the government says about it: "a disincentive to not take leaves" >> "Take leaves "

[northernladuk]

I think it's an umbrella, because I had a contract for 6 months and then another one of 3, and then again 4. I had a recent extension I haven't signed yet, so the proper terminology must be umbrella and not agency. I have the status of self-employed, I pay tax through PAYE.

I don't know about accruals or advanced payment, all I know is that GE is paying them a gross bill. From that they deduct many things including holiday hourly rate.

Can Anyone please explain why some company have common sense to pay the holiday remaining days at the end of the year, and some just won't ?

I wouldn't be mocking someone's common sense when you are struggling so hard to understand how you get paid tens of thousands of pounds.

[eek]

I think it's an umbrella, because I had a contract for 6 months and then another one of 3, and then again 4. I had a recent extension I haven't signed yet, so the proper terminology must be umbrella and not agency. I have the status of self-employed, I pay tax through PAYE.

I don't know about accruals or advanced payment, all I know is that GE is paying them a gross bill. From that they deduct many things including holiday hourly rate.

Can Anyone please explain why some company have common sense to pay the holiday remaining days at the end of the year, and some just won't ?

By the sounds of it you are on the Agency's payroll so it's not an umbrella and if you are on PAYE you are not self employed.

As for the rest umbrella companies may have processes in place to check for unused holiday as they deal with such small margins that unpaid holiday pay would be obvious, for agencies it will just be a small amount of additional profit that they wouldn't notice and they probably wouldn't have encountered the issue often enough to identify that they need to have a report to catch the issue.

[Rasol]

The terminology is the key thing, there's a big difference between agencies and umbrellas:
An agency - that's a company that finds roles for you
An umbrella - that's a company that handles your pay and taxes, based on you getting a role through an agent. The umbrella does not get you roles.



If you're a permanent employee - not a contractor, then you get so many days holiday a year - it's in your contract of employment. These days are up to you when you take them, etc. If you don't take all your holidays, then it's up to you to have agreed with the company before hand what you're going to do - will they pay you for them, let you carry some of them over to the following year, etc.
I find it hard to believe that you had 28 days paid holidays in a year, but you didn't take a single day off.
I'm also confused as to whether you are a contractor or an employee.

I took day off, I just didn't ask to be paid at that point in time.
I'm a self-employed contractor considered an employee by HMRC. I think

[Rasol]

That's only part of the questions that need to be asked the second one is whether holiday pay was done via accruals or via advanced payment.

either way it's the OPs responsibility to know what they needed to do and I wouldn't be expecting an umbrella to pick things like this up...

I think it's an umbrella, because I had a contract for 6 months and then another one of 3, and then again 4. I had a recent extension I haven't signed yet, so the proper terminology must be umbrella and not agency. I have the status of self-employed, I pay tax through PAYE.

I don't know about accruals or advanced payment, all I know is that GE is paying them a gross bill. From that they deduct many things including holiday hourly rate.

Can Anyone please explain why some company have common sense to pay the holiday remaining days at the end of the year, and some just won't ?