Reply to: Smart thermostat advice needed

[d000hg]

Yup, same here. One thing I like is that it doesn't rely on cloud connectivity. I.e. the TRVs report to the controller (on-prem), which reports to the cloud service. That means that I have the option of configuring it remotely: when I was working away from home, I'd put it in "away" mode during the week, and then put it back on normal mode when I stopped at a motorway service station on my way home. However, if the company goes bankrupt or whatever then it won't be bricked (aka the Juicero problem).

The thermostats are built into the TRV valve head, which does mean that it's taking the room temperature from the hottest point in the room. However, the temperature will gradually even out, and that's been less of a problem than I'd feared.

I have solid walls, but I haven't had any problems with the signals, even when my 5 GHz wifi gets blocked. It uses 800 MHz (maybe all these systems do?) and lower frequency means better range.

Yeah that is a benefit to me too. I dislike the whole "roundtrip through the internet" to turn on something 3 feet away
There are even some homebrew software projects to let you hack it into your own system if you're a proper nerd, though Honeywell aren't that interested (they used to be and provided an API back in the day).

I have a big, sprawling Victorian house (hence maxing out the 12 zones) which is all solid brick. We get intermittent connection glitches every now and then in one or two rooms but it doesn't seem to matter. It uses ZWave IR if I remember right (not dissimilar to Zigbee I think)

[hobnob]

We invested in the Honeywell Evohome system when we moved here ~6 years back. Went the full "every room its own zone" thing so we set the temperature on a per room basis.

Yup, same here. One thing I like is that it doesn't rely on cloud connectivity. I.e. the TRVs report to the controller (on-prem), which reports to the cloud service. That means that I have the option of configuring it remotely: when I was working away from home, I'd put it in "away" mode during the week, and then put it back on normal mode when I stopped at a motorway service station on my way home. However, if the company goes bankrupt or whatever then it won't be bricked (aka the Juicero problem).

The thermostats are built into the TRV valve head, which does mean that it's taking the room temperature from the hottest point in the room. However, the temperature will gradually even out, and that's been less of a problem than I'd feared.

I have solid walls, but I haven't had any problems with the signals, even when my 5 GHz wifi gets blocked. It uses 800 MHz (maybe all these systems do?) and lower frequency means better range.

[northernladuk]

I mentioned Nest. The 'smart' feature of automatically setting the temperature seems to piss a lot of people off. Do you have that issue? I hear many people end up disabling it.

You know what, i'd have to check. We tend to keep the temp to 17 and just put fleeces on. Me and the lad are always in a golf fleece anyway. There is only one day that more than two of us are in and then evenings. We don't warm the house up for one person. Takes far too long with the flat roof thing was well. So compared to most of our friends we run a pretty cold house. Thinking about it now it's always at 17, maybe more if we are drying or all in at a weekend and we've had no issue so I've a feeling the smart bit must be off.

We've also got 12 rooms and open hall way for three of us on top of us being out most of the time so we just can't bear to have the heating just for us to be camped in our fave rooms. That's why I'm intrigued by the multi room thing. Two bed rooms, back dining room can stay on next to nothing most of the time. Kitchen and one of upstairs bathrooms needs next to no heating as well. I;m not heating the lads bathroom to max just for the odd time he has a 30 minute dump.

If nothing else it's a project that will keep me interested for awhile. I might have to start a spreadsheet to measure over time, then get one and compare.

EDIT : The 12 point Honeywell thing is £1300 quid. Looks like I'll buying everyone a thicker jumper.

[d000hg]

Surely you should be leaving all this to your housekeeper or handyman?

Even most plumbers are confused by our system let alone the housekeeper

[d000hg]

Yes, Tado can zone a building quite effectively.

I have five zones in my house: bedroom, office, living room, conservatory, hallway. The bedroom comes on for 90 mins in the morning and two hours in the evening. The office is on M-F 0800 - 1700 and off at all other times. The living room is on in the evenings only M-F and morning and evenings at weekends. The conservatory is maintained at a low temp all day as it's a massive heatsink and the hallway is where the primary thermostat is that connects to the boiler so that's just in frost protection mode.

Not all of my radiators have a smart TRV on them. Bedroom and Office, yes. Living room has two rads but only one smart TRV. The other rad is in a location that doesn't need much heating so it's on low. The conservatory has three rads and only one has a smart TRV. One rad is permanently on the lowest setting as it's behind a fridge so I don't really want it pumping out heat. The other one is where the clothes airer goes and is on a medium setting. The hall radiator is the only one without any TRV (smart or otherwise).

The main challenge is that the TRVs take the ambient temperature from their position right by the radiator, which is always going to be warmer than where you're sitting. Even worse, in my bedroom, it's located behind heavy curtains (yes my landlady is one of those who thinks it's a good idea to put a radiator under a window and then fit heavy floor to ceiling curtains). So in the living room and bedroom I have a separate thermostat in a sensible location that then tells the smart TRV when to call for heat. I keep meaning to buy one for the office too.

The rads without a smart TRV will heat up to their set temperature whenever something 'smart' calls for heat, which is why they're all on a moderate to low setting so as not to unnecessarily heat space. This keeps things comfortable inbetween formal warming up times.

We have the same since we ran out of zones - the hallway for instance. As LM points out, the smart TRVs not only open and close, they tell the boiler (I assume Tado has some interface to the boiler relay) when to turn on (or with more fancy boilers, how much to turn on). It works fine because it's unusual you want to heat the hall whe no other room is requiring heating.

The Evo system allows you to get a separate thermostat to overcome the "right next to the radiator" issue although it's mainly an issue if you have poor airflow, presumably the TRVs factor this in a bit. Equally in a room with multiple radiators you can choose which device is the sensor. Quite clever but a lot of faffing around.

[edison]

I had a Nest thermostat fitted about 4 years ago when we got a new Bosch boiler. The installer suggested Nest or one from Bosch and I chose Nest.

I found it very hit and miss with the automatic setting. had a period where heating kept coming on at 4am. I couldn't figure out why until I found a setting where you can change how many hours it takes to heat up to your desired temperature and it was set at a default five hours.

Sometimes the house feels cold and the thermostat hasn't kicked in. Other times it puts the heating on when it feels it doesn't need to come on.

I live in a four storey house and even though we have TRVs on all radiators, I reckon a multi zone system would be very handy. I don't know if Next supports this.

In hindsight I wish I had chosen the Bosch one.

[ladymuck]

AFAIK Tado can do the same as my system. I think there are a few options like that these days.

Yes, Tado can zone a building quite effectively.

I have five zones in my house: bedroom, office, living room, conservatory, hallway. The bedroom comes on for 90 mins in the morning and two hours in the evening. The office is on M-F 0800 - 1700 and off at all other times. The living room is on in the evenings only M-F and morning and evenings at weekends. The conservatory is maintained at a low temp all day as it's a massive heatsink and the hallway is where the primary thermostat is that connects to the boiler so that's just in frost protection mode.

Not all of my radiators have a smart TRV on them. Bedroom and Office, yes. Living room has two rads but only one smart TRV. The other rad is in a location that doesn't need much heating so it's on low. The conservatory has three rads and only one has a smart TRV. One rad is permanently on the lowest setting as it's behind a fridge so I don't really want it pumping out heat. The other one is where the clothes airer goes and is on a medium setting. The hall radiator is the only one without any TRV (smart or otherwise).

The main challenge is that the TRVs take the ambient temperature from their position right by the radiator, which is always going to be warmer than where you're sitting. Even worse, in my bedroom, it's located behind heavy curtains (yes my landlady is one of those who thinks it's a good idea to put a radiator under a window and then fit heavy floor to ceiling curtains). So in the living room and bedroom I have a separate thermostat in a sensible location that then tells the smart TRV when to call for heat. I keep meaning to buy one for the office too.

The rads without a smart TRV will heat up to their set temperature whenever something 'smart' calls for heat, which is why they're all on a moderate to low setting so as not to unnecessarily heat space. This keeps things comfortable inbetween formal warming up times.

[Snooky]

Surely you should be leaving all this to your housekeeper or handyman?

Anyway, we changed from a fixed wired thermostat to a wireless one many years ago, before smart homes had even been dreamt of, so we still have something really simple, very similar to this https://www.screwfix.com/p/honeywell...ermostat/543kt

You just wire one bit into the demand controls (I let the heating engineer do that as he was fitting a new boiler at the time) and then the thermostat part sits wherever you want it. It's wireless but not via your WiFi, so it needs to be close enough to able to talk to the receiver in the airing cupboard or wherever. You can add preset temperatures for different time ranges on different days of the week.

The only slight annoyance is that sometimes my wife puts it in the living room, which is by far the warmest room in the house, so when it gets to its set temperature the heating goes off and the rest of the house is freezing!

[d000hg]

Interesting to see the responses. I thought it would be mostly Nest and no one has mentioned it yet. I've got a nest and it's done what it needs to for years. Only gripe is the whole house seems to act like a faraday cage and I can't get wireless through two rooms let alone to cover the house. Even the smart meter man commented on it as he had to install the most power full option just to get through one room and downstairs. About 40ft in a diagonal and it didn't work. Thankfully the nest is in the hallway about 10 feet from the boiler and had no connection issues to date.

Second issue is hte house again. It started as a tiny bunglow on the side of a hill and has been extended multiple times over many years. I'm guessing the plasterboard could be fitted on an aluminium structure not just battons hence the faraday issue but it also means every single room bar non has a different insulation situation. Three rooms with flat roof, of those one has one external wall, another has two and the office has three and so on. When the house is up to heat every single room is a different temp and the office is freezing. Two zones would be useful but d000hg's solution sounds perfect so will deffo have a look in to that.

AFAIK Tado can do the same as my system. I think there are a few options like that these days.

[BigLadFromBeeston666]

Interesting to see the responses. I thought it would be mostly Nest and no one has mentioned it yet. I've got a nest and it's done what it needs to for years. Only gripe is the whole house seems to act like a faraday cage and I can't get wireless through two rooms let alone to cover the house. Even the smart meter man commented on it as he had to install the most power full option just to get through one room and downstairs. About 40ft in a diagonal and it didn't work. Thankfully the nest is in the hallway about 10 feet from the boiler and had no connection issues to date.

Second issue is hte house again. It started as a tiny bunglow on the side of a hill and has been extended multiple times over many years. I'm guessing the plasterboard could be fitted on an aluminium structure not just battons hence the faraday issue but it also means every single room bar non has a different insulation situation. Three rooms with flat roof, of those one has one external wall, another has two and the office has three and so on. When the house is up to heat every single room is a different temp and the office is freezing. Two zones would be useful but d000hg's solution sounds perfect so will deffo have a look in to that.

I mentioned Nest. The 'smart' feature of automatically setting the temperature seems to piss a lot of people off. Do you have that issue? I hear many people end up disabling it.

[northernladuk]

Interesting to see the responses. I thought it would be mostly Nest and no one has mentioned it yet. I've got a nest and it's done what it needs to for years. Only gripe is the whole house seems to act like a faraday cage and I can't get wireless through two rooms let alone to cover the house. Even the smart meter man commented on it as he had to install the most power full option just to get through one room and downstairs. About 40ft in a diagonal and it didn't work. Thankfully the nest is in the hallway about 10 feet from the boiler and had no connection issues to date.

Second issue is hte house again. It started as a tiny bunglow on the side of a hill and has been extended multiple times over many years. I'm guessing the plasterboard could be fitted on an aluminium structure not just battons hence the faraday issue but it also means every single room bar non has a different insulation situation. Three rooms with flat roof, of those one has one external wall, another has two and the office has three and so on. When the house is up to heat every single room is a different temp and the office is freezing. Two zones would be useful but d000hg's solution sounds perfect so will deffo have a look in to that.

[Chris Bryce]

+another for Tado.

[d000hg]

We invested in the Honeywell Evohome system when we moved here ~6 years back. Went the full "every room its own zone" thing so we set the temperature on a per room basis.

It's good but it doesn't really seem to get the updates others do, but it's a bit more of a serious system. We maxed out the 12 zones which is an unfortunate limitation and had to juggle a bit but it certainly helps on reducing waste.

[ladymuck]

+1 for tado

Really easy to set up and just works. You can go as minimal or as full on as you like

[eek]

Wiser just works - we have it throughout the house.

Depending on the size of your house you made need a wiser smart plug or 2 as they act of boosters if the distance between the thermostat and the main controller is too far...