Reply to: Getting desperate - HMRC Loan Scheme

[eek]

But it isn't a lone. That is were the unfairness lies.

That’s a bit of good news then - you only owe money to HMRC and the scheme promoter doesn’t have any means by which they could come back and ask for the loan to be repaid.

which is better than what happened to the people who used Felictias or similar schemes.

[Diagnose b4 u prescribe]

But it isn't a lone. That is were the unfairness lies.

It may be unfair but the "Loan Charge" legislation is simply the name attached to an overall approach covering a range of schemes. You should ignore the fact the promoter may have called it something else like an employee benefit scheme or something similar

[GregRickshaw]

How was it not a loan?

[NickLeeson2]

I asked the same question of HMRC in an email last year. Their reply was "Unfortunately, expenses cannot be set against the loan charge, as the loan charge just charges the loan amounts to income tax." So it was batted straight back to me

But it isn't a lone. That is were the unfairness lies.

[Diagnose b4 u prescribe]

Now that HMRC have decided the income should be taxed under PAYE, can Expenses be offset against the Tax to reduce the liability, for all years effected?

I asked the same question of HMRC in an email last year. Their reply was "Unfortunately, expenses cannot be set against the loan charge, as the loan charge just charges the loan amounts to income tax." So it was batted straight back to me

[NickLeeson2]

Now that HMRC have decided the income should be taxed under PAYE, can Expenses be offset against the Tax to reduce the liability, for all years effected?

[GregRickshaw]

Thank you all so much, I did make tea and take a breath. I'm no longer a contractor as it was all too much to deal with. I was not equipped with how to deal with finances and HMRC, I didn't have a very hands on accountant.

I called HMRC yesterday morning and advised the numbers don't make any sense as they've added I earned £154k in 2018/19 which is completely inaccurate.

Also that between '15-17 I worked for SP Management Ltd, who I've never heard of.

The advisor asked me to email ca.loancharge@hmrc.gov.uk advising them of our conversation, which I've done.

Now I suppose I wait. I appreciate the suggestions for tax specialists but honestly, money is very tight so I'm not sure I can afford any additional help and I don't have anyone I can ask for financial help unfortunately.

Webberg from WTT has posted this about the high amount you are seeing. HTH

"The simple answer is that most 2018/19 discovery assessments claim to be in respect of the loan charge.

The loan charge is a tax specific to those who have used disguised remuneration schemes, principally therefore contractors and owners of small/medium businesses who used EBTs.

The loan charge adds to your 2018/19 income, all unpaid loans that have arisen from the use of schemes between 9th December 2010 to 5th April 2019.

So if you get an assessment and think "I've never earned that in 2018/19", think about the loans from the period above, add them to earnings in 18/19 and you'll get very close to the scary number on the assessment."

[WTFH]

Looks a bit like Phil

(Image from WayBackMachine archive of January 2023)

https://web.archive.org/web/20230106...omantax.co.uk/

[cojak]

You’re right - the website has disappeared, I checked up on them too, dammit.

Sorry about that, even Mods can be hoodwinked sometimes.

[dammit chloe]

Along with the other recommendations, take a look at the Roman Tax website. They have a clear and transparent pricing policy, so you can see exactly what you might pay.

HelenF who works there occasionally shows up on the forum.

If it's romantax.co.uk then I think that was actually Phil Manley back for a double dip. That site is gone now. HelenF is likely Phil too.

[cojak]

Thank you all so much, I did make tea and take a breath. I'm no longer a contractor as it was all too much to deal with. I was not equipped with how to deal with finances and HMRC, I didn't have a very hands on accountant.

I called HMRC yesterday morning and advised the numbers don't make any sense as they've added I earned £154k in 2018/19 which is completely inaccurate.

Also that between '15-17 I worked for SP Management Ltd, who I've never heard of.

The advisor asked me to email ca.loancharge@hmrc.gov.uk advising them of our conversation, which I've done.

Now I suppose I wait. I appreciate the suggestions for tax specialists but honestly, money is very tight so I'm not sure I can afford any additional help and I don't have anyone I can ask for financial help unfortunately.

Along with the other recommendations, take a look at the Roman Tax website. They have a clear and transparent pricing policy, so you can see exactly what you might pay.

HelenF who works there occasionally shows up on the forum.

(EDIT: I was hoodwinked - Roman Tax was Phil Manley in disguise. Sorry folks. )

[Diagnose b4 u prescribe]

Thank you all so much, I did make tea and take a breath. I'm no longer a contractor as it was all too much to deal with. I was not equipped with how to deal with finances and HMRC, I didn't have a very hands on accountant.

I called HMRC yesterday morning and advised the numbers don't make any sense as they've added I earned £154k in 2018/19 which is completely inaccurate.

Also that between '15-17 I worked for SP Management Ltd, who I've never heard of.

The advisor asked me to email ca.loancharge@hmrc.gov.uk advising them of our conversation, which I've done.

Now I suppose I wait. I appreciate the suggestions for tax specialists but honestly, money is very tight so I'm not sure I can afford any additional help and I don't have anyone I can ask for financial help unfortunately.

Suggest you firstly pick up on that point in your post stating "they've added I earned £154k in 2018/19 which is completely inaccurate". I also believed a sales pitch and went with a so-called QC approved solution for a little over 2 years 2013-2015. For one of those years HMRC had me receiving twice the amount of 'loans' I actually got paid because the provider's name was entered differently in their system. Ask them to provide evidence of that amount and perhaps counter with a CSV download from your bank showing the true amount you received. This won't resolve all your issues but may provide some mitigation for the amount demanded. If you want to try and handle this yourself, you may also want to google the HMRC info page "find out how the changes to the loan charge affect you" and also take a look at the Morse Review which helps understand what is in or out of scope of the Loan Charge. Best wishes. I've also been there and am still enjoying life so don't get despondent!

[Keanu2020]

I had an experience like the OP with HMRC. Basically, sell everything I own to pay them, veiled threats about house, etc. Really nasty tone, completely unreasonable, wouldn’t even discuss TTP. I phoned back and asked to make a complaint, I also wrote to them to make a complaint. In all cases HMRC said found no issue and no complaint to uphold, case closed. It is a mixed bag there though, others have been helpful.

[Snooky]

Thank you! I feel stupid for being so effected by this whole thing. I messed up and I feel like they've been hounding me for years with threats and all these incorrect calculations.

I had a call with an HMRC advisor, who, when I lost my job during covid and I was trying to freeze my payment plan said to me "well what did you do with all your money? If you can't pay you self assessment then sell your car, have you got a house, maybe you should think about selling up?" And I just thought, oh my god, I'm going to have to lose everything for this. That's why I have these thoughts of losing everything.

I'll definitely look into those companies then, thank you.

I try never to call HMRC but, if I do, I always record the call and let them know I'm recording it (I just tell them it's because I have a terrible memory, which is true). You can get a free app for Android called ACR call recorder, I'm sure there's something similar for iPhone. Firstly so that I remember exactly what was said and have proof if needed, secondly it instantly makes them more likely to be on their best behaviour.

I definitely wouldn't have put up with comments like you've received, I'd probably have raised a formal complaint. But it depends what they actually said - you may have taken a different meaning than they intended, I don't know.

[GregRickshaw]

Thank you! I feel stupid for being so effected by this whole thing. I messed up and I feel like they've been hounding me for years with threats and all these incorrect calculations.

I had a call with an HMRC advisor, who, when I lost my job during covid and I was trying to freeze my payment plan said to me "well what did you do with all your money? If you can't pay you self assessment then sell your car, have you got a house, maybe you should think about selling up?" And I just thought, oh my god, I'm going to have to lose everything for this. That's why I have these thoughts of losing everything.

I'll definitely look into those companies then, thank you.

Let's hope the calls were recorded for training and monitoring purposes!

However what HMRC do get twitchy about if you have fancy pants cars sitting on your drive or second properties.

For them to use vernacular about selling your home is probably against all mental health and respect practices though and I'm sure the Obudsman would be very keen to hear about this.

It does depend really on who you get on the end of the phone at times. This is why many of us used specialists as they will cut through all the emotional BS.

As someone said you can get very lengthy TTP agreements for this, between my tax specialist and my MP I got over 10 years paid it off in 5 in the end but just be 100% honest with them about your commitments and yes it's a lot of money but it's just money.

And never feel stupid for being effected of course you'll be effected who wouldn't be?