Reply to: Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Protagoras]

Also this seems to be clear that money we owe is interest applied but any we pay "you can ask us to refund the up-front payment to you." Not we will..not we will with interest but...you can ask.

Again I feel both MPs and the PAC need to rein in this out of control agency. How is this fair...but based on their argument at the hearing I'm far too stupid/dishonest to understand.

The treatment of interest is wholly unfair; interest should be reciprocal but differential rates seem to be used as a punishment.

This would appear to amount to paying interest on an unproven debt.

+1 MPs need to get control of the ongoing tax injustice.

[geekergosum]

Obviously the headline in this is their threat to either accept another 6 years (!) standstill or pay up now.

But you know, their only doing it to help us out...it would be a shame if HMRC had to get the courts involved.

Also this seems to be clear that money we owe is interest applied but any we pay "you can ask us to refund the up-front payment to you." Not we will..not we will with interest but...you can ask.

Again I feel both MPs and the PAC need to rein in this out of control agency. How is this fair...but based on their argument at the hearing I'm far too stupid/dishonest to understand.

Fingers crossed the air con at HMRC HQ has broken down.

Edit: also I have to send the paper copy back to them...and no prepaid envelope...they really are swines. Also I note that the team at the top of the demand is now listed as DNO - MSC Team...that seems new

[geekergosum]

The latest extortion threat letter from HMRC (emphasis is their formatting)

Managed Service Company Check

Managed Service Company legislation at Chapter 9 Part 2 Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 (ITEPA 2003) and the Social Security Contributions (Managed Service Companies) Regulations 2007.

Action Required - Extending our 'standstill agreement'

Where this letter refers to you, this means xxxxxxx. You're the business responsible for paying National Insurance contributions (NICs) to HMRC using the Pay As You Earn (PAYE) system.

We have already issued Regulation 80 determinations and Section 8 decisions for the Income Tax and NICs we believe you owe. You submitted appeals against these, and the charges remain stood over.

We previously wrote to you confirming the hearing details for the Tribunal relating to The App Accounting Group T/A Boox. This concluded on 26" June 2026. We are currently awaiting the Judge's decision, and we are unable to confirm how long this will take.

You entered into a standstill agreement with us on 5 January 2024.

One of the terms of the agreement was that it would last for 36 months, unless we both agree to extend it. We're now reaching the end of that period. We propose extending the agreement for a further 72 months. We have to agree any extension with you before the existing standstill agreement expires on 5 January 2027.

The benefits of you entering into the original standstill agreement were that for the NICs and interest included in the agreement, you won't:

• have to pay back any court fees to us risk having a county court judgement (CCJ against you.
• risk having a county court judgement against you

It also means we can collect any NICs we think you owe, and interest after the normal 6-year time limit.

What we need you to do by 7 August 2026.

If you agree to extending the standstill agreement, please sign and return the enclosed deed to us by 7 August 2026.

If you don't return the signed deed by 7 August 2026 or reply to us, we'll take action through the County Court to protect the amount you owe us. If we take action, we have to do this before the original agreement expires on 5 January 2027.

How to stop late payment interest from building up

We charge late payment interest when tax and NICs are paid late. Interest is charged daily from the date the tax and NICs were due until the date they're paid.

If you want to stop any more interest from building up, you can make an up-front payment of any tax and NICs you think you may owe. You can do this whether or not you enter into a standstill agreement with us.

If we later find you don't owe some or all of the tax and NICs, you can ask us to refund the up-front payment to you.

[GregRickshaw]

Has anyone with CHK had any updates lately? They seem to have stopped, and trying to access the portal appears to have stopped working for me only to be met with a paywall?…

I highlighted it a few pages ago but here's the state of play as of now:

CK sold up to Magi GJJ Limited, Magi GJJ Limited then sold to Omnia Outsourcing which distanced the former directors (who I have to say seemed very up for the fight and very organised) from CK. Those former directors have vanished and cannot be contacted easily. The new directors are not answering any communications from mortals like us right through to the Tax Lawyers and the Barristers.

We can speculate why but my opionion is they (the new directors) did not know what they were getting into.

We did think a couple of weeks ago the £1 million had also vanished but it does seem the Barristers have the money and the instructions for November.

You are correct the portal has been dead for over a year despite a constant bombardment. Maybe it's a website no one even knows about within Omnia.

It does seem we will go to court with lawyers etc., still but after HMRC's painting of Boox being a shady neerdowell company this does not bode well for CK... running off does kind of prejudice juries a little.

[Scanti]

Has anyone with CHK had any updates lately? They seem to have stopped, and trying to access the portal appears to have stopped working for me only to be met with a paywall?…

I can get into the Portal but no update since Dec 25

[phonic22]

Has anyone with CHK had any updates lately? They seem to have stopped, and trying to access the portal appears to have stopped working for me only to be met with a paywall?…

[rdw1970]

Has anyone heard anything from David Kirk since the end of the trial?
I've had daily updates then nothing since the 29/06...

My guess is we'll hear from him when the new standstill agreements start coming through for his group members.

[GregRickshaw]

I know his last email was long, but he did say in it he would be silent until the judgement comes out.

I think he only meant silent in opinion. He'll still be communicating his other work for us.

[Lotok]

I know his last email was long, but he did say in it he would be silent until the judgement comes out.

[senka311]

Has anyone heard anything from David Kirk since the end of the trial?
I've had daily updates then nothing since the 29/06...

[howbigmassive]

A standstill agreement request in July when the limitation period for NICs would be two weeks after the end of the financial year of 5 April 2027 is premature, especially with the BOOX test case having just finished - and you'd expect a judgment before then (regardless of any subsequent appeals), and then with the CKA test case also scheduled for later this this year.

HMRC should wait until closer to the end of the limitation period before filing protective claims with the county court (CC), otherwise I'd suggest it is a premature and unreasonable request, which incurs costs on their side to prepare and file, and on the defendants side to respond to. In my specific case, HMRC requested standstill agreements on multiple occasions, most requests were unreasonable and I declined all of them, with HMRC proceeding to file two protective claims with the CC:

1. A standstill request on 23 November 2023.
2. A standstill request on 4 March 2025 covering two separate tax years simultaneously - unreasonable and unnecessary.
3. A standstill request on 8 April 2025 with only three days to respond - unreasonable.
4. A standstill request on 29 August 2025, when there were still seven months remaining until the limitation period and whilst my tribunal appeal was in full flow - unreasonable and unnecessary.

There is the wider issue that HMRCs use of protective claims and standstill agreements is a result of their disorganised handling of this entire investigation. A party should not be able to benefit from such instruments, when it was their own conduct that led to the delays in the first place. For example, it took HMRC 655 days to perform the 'independent review' that I had a statutory right to request, when their own guidance is 45 days.

The Limitations Act 1980 exists for a reason and I'd suggest HMRCs use of them is an abuse of process - but it does not stop them trying, and it did not prevent the CC from allowing the claims, because HMRC then immediately requested that they be aside whilst the test cases were pending.

[bnacontractor]

Has any one received a further standstill agreement relating to CK and taken advice on whether to agree to it. It reads very much in a way that you have no choice and dammed if you or you don’t but just interested in other people’s thoughts before I agree to this dragging out and hanging over me even longer?

[enda1]

It seems HMRC think the same, they started sending even more stand still agreements which takes them roughly to 2033.

Wonder if they'll miss the cc deadline this time around for those that don't sign...

[GregRickshaw]

Bullying yes, panicking yes, calculated yes, every adjective you need applies to HMRC. They truly are the very definition of a law unto themselves. Correct at the tribunal they basically said, 'we don't give a sh** about time barred'

No one would be daft enough to put it past them to try to collect after 10 years. I think there are rules (theirs of course) which is something along the lines of 'if they can prove deliberate wrong doing'

I do know something had I done this much research into my Geography degree as I have done into HMRC DR schemes, MSC legislation etc., I'd have been a professor at Oxford instead of a low life IT contractor...

Had enough of this for now. Going back to life until the next tribunal. Still not got my POA back yet, I wonder how much interest I will get since they've had my money for nearly five years.

See you all back here in November

[Hareforthebear]

It seems HMRC think the same, they started sending even more stand still agreements which takes them roughly to 2033.

Wow really?!

Have they actually taken any protective action with the county courts or is this just a bluff they are trying to bully people into?

I was never sent one though had no intention of signing and NICS now time barred (or potentially not in their opinion if you believe their tribunal waffle). I do know of someone who HMRC admitted (in writing) that a portion of their NICS were time barred and asked them to sign a standstill for remaining or they will take action in county court. They did not sign nor did HMRC take any protective action.