Are professional references pointless now?

[jackii]

Depends on the industry. In some fields, it's all about who you know. In others, references are just a box to check. I've hired people whose references were glowing and they were terrible. Also hired people with lukewarm references who crushed it. It's a broken system.

[Dorkeaux]

I don't have a Company Secretary. That stopped being a requirement many years ago and I took the role off as my Mum was fed up of the junk mail (this was back when you had your home address visible on the register).

Indeed.

The clients and agencies these days seem perfectly happy with a letter from my accountacy saying I've been continuously employed as the director of MyCo for xx years.
Assuming your MyCo is registered for PAYE and HMRC sees you are filing your returns.

[ladymuck]

Some time ago I was asked for an employment reference. Since I was an employee of the LtdCo I controlled - and naturally had a Contract of Employment since day 1 - it was easy to get the Company Secretary to provide an employment reference.
I don't recall that being queried. Tick-box process in action.

I don't have a Company Secretary. That stopped being a requirement many years ago and I took the role off as my Mum was fed up of the junk mail (this was back when you had your home address visible on the register).

[DoctorStrangelove]

Some time ago I was asked for an employment reference. Since I was an employee of the LtdCo I controlled - and naturally had a Contract of Employment since day 1 - it was easy to get the Company Secretary to provide an employment reference.
I don't recall that being queried. Tick-box process in action.

^^^^ This. for my final job rather a lot of years ago now. .

[b0redom]

I just started with a Fintech company who wanted 10 years of work references, and a copy of my degree (from 1997). That's by far the exception though.

With regard to 'real' references rather than just 'b0redom worked here between Dec 23 and Dec 24' or whatever, I try and collect a few LinkedIn recommendations before I move to a new role. I've got over 50 now, and hopefully a few words from a pretty senior contact carries a bit more gravitas when the pimps are looking for folks.

[Protagoras]

They wanted 5 years employment references. I mentioned that I haven't been employed for over 20 years, having been working via my own Limited Company for that time.

Some time ago I was asked for an employment reference. Since I was an employee of the LtdCo I controlled - and naturally had a Contract of Employment since day 1 - it was easy to get the Company Secretary to provide an employment reference.
I don't recall that being queried. Tick-box process in action.

[courtg9000]

but professional references are (at best) some agency box ticking exercise or (at worst) a fishing exercise from an agency desperate for leads.

^^^^^THIS!^^^^^

[ladymuck]

Current gig had a torturous process for references via Adecco. An agency who are so geared up for permanent recruitment that I was surprised the contract didn't mention it too.

They wanted 5 years employment references. I mentioned that I haven't been employed for over 20 years, having been working via my own Limited Company for that time. You'd think this was some new way of working by the way they reacted and fussed about how they could tick all their compliance check boxes.

I got this gig because I know the hiring product manager. This is how I get most of my work. So there is something to be said for having a good working reputation but professional references are (at best) some agency box ticking exercise or (at worst) a fishing exercise from an agency desperate for leads.

[Dorkeaux]

A good network and a good reputation with other contractors has got me most of my work over the last couple of decades. It's quite common for clients to ask their current tranche of contractors if anyone knows of someone who is available with a certain skill set, or the flip side is that someone applies for a role and the client asks their current contractors if anyone knows that person. It's not a reference, it's a personal recommendation.

All good points.

I've tried hard to keep referees from all my past engagements sweet, but for the past few years no one has shown the least interest in calling them up personally.
They used to, but don't seem to now. Because it would involve speaking to someone on the "phone".

It doesn't stop the vetting process from getting increasingly intrusive, though.
These days, they like to check that your HMRC records match your CV.

They will also check with your previous employer's HR dept to verify your time of employment and job title.
For outside IR35 contracts, a note from my accountant serves.
For inside IR35 contracts the umbrella companies have pretty slick reference services.

But yeah, a quiet word from a previous colleague is normally the way these days.

[WTFH]

References are pointless i’d say. A network though…. priceless. Pretty much every gig over the last 6 years has been through people i have worked with before.

A good network and a good reputation with other contractors has got me most of my work over the last couple of decades. It's quite common for clients to ask their current tranche of contractors if anyone knows of someone who is available with a certain skill set, or the flip side is that someone applies for a role and the client asks their current contractors if anyone knows that person. It's not a reference, it's a personal recommendation.

[Ketto]

References are pointless i’d say. A network though…. priceless. Pretty much every gig over the last 6 years has been through people i have worked with before.

[Protagoras]

References have always been pointless. Many firms now will provide no more than employment dates and job title.

Who needs a reference for a contractor that can be let go at the end of the week - or sooner - if not up to the job?

[elliotw1990]

References have always been useless I agree! But it doesn’t stop a lot of employers still asking for them.. whether it’s contract work or even as an FTE

[NotAllThere]

Aw. Bless.

I asked my French boss when I was working in France for a reference. He looked at me.

- Are you a domestic worker?
- No...
- Well, I like you. You write it, I'll sign it.

In France references were only used for domestic workers. Servant. That was 1995.

References have always been useless. People who know who you are, know who you are. And precisely for that reason, since I'd had a very lucrative contract for 15 years, I quit as a contractor. You have to move around to be known. I went with a recent client as a permie.

[elliotw1990]

Honest question. When you finish a contract, does your reputation carry forward in any real way, or does it basically reset to zero each time?

Been thinking about how broken the reference system feels. Employers give good ones to get rid of people, candidates list mates as former managers, and everyone just goes through the motions.

Curious whether you guys feel the same or if I’m missing something.