Reply to: List of outside IR35 roles

[jamesbrown]

Is it possible in this case that it's the CFO who is the actual Office holder and not the Finance Director position? The CFO is presumably the position on the Board of Directors, not the FD role?

Could be, the position title doesn't always mirror the formal appointment to an office. The only certain thing is that an office holder is deemed inside IR35, whether under Chapter 8 or Chapter 10, and I wouldn't trust an advert to get this right. Also, as Protagoras notes, the rate is a bit....er....optimistic.

[edison]

Nope, this is designated under Chapter 10, ITEPA too. If, under the hypothetical contract between the worker and the client, the worker would be regarded as an office holder of the client or, in actual fact, they are an office holder of the client and performing services related to that office, then the worker is "inside IR35".

In other words, don't rely on the fluff in position descriptions.

Is it possible in this case that it's the CFO who is the actual Office holder and not the Finance Director position? The CFO is presumably the position on the Board of Directors, not the FD role?

[Protagoras]

Nope, this is designated under Chapter 10, ITEPA too. If, under the hypothetical contract between the worker and the client, the worker would be regarded as an office holder of the client or, in actual fact, they are an office holder of the client and performing services related to that office, then the worker is "inside IR35".

In other words, don't rely on the fluff in position descriptions.

Just so.

Who'd therefore be surprised if the contract for this role was to include an indemnity clause ...

Absent an indemnity clause, what's not to like, other than the rate which looks rather on the light side to me.

[jamesbrown]

Great post that thank you very much. If I was a miserable old git I'd be hacked off you've now made it easier for 500 chumps to apply for the role I took time and effort to find but hey ho

Interesting to see there is a Interim Finance Director reporting to the CFO. I thought that would be an 'Office Holder' role and therefore not be able to work outside IR35. It's definitely a proper director role reporting to the CFO and not just a jumped up title. That said I've no idea if Office Holder rules have changed with the new world of SDS etc. but I wouldn't have thought so as there is case history on this.

https://outsideir35.org.uk/jobs/inte...xWSDCjewMH?b=1

Nope, this is designated under Chapter 10, ITEPA too. If, under the hypothetical contract between the worker and the client, the worker would be regarded as an office holder of the client or, in actual fact, they are an office holder of the client and performing services related to that office, then the worker is "inside IR35".

In other words, don't rely on the fluff in position descriptions.

[northernladuk]

Great post that thank you very much. If I was a miserable old git I'd be hacked off you've now made it easier for 500 chumps to apply for the role I took time and effort to find but hey ho

Interesting to see there is a Interim Finance Director reporting to the CFO. I thought that would be an 'Office Holder' role and therefore not be able to work outside IR35. It's definitely a proper director role reporting to the CFO and not just a jumped up title. That said I've no idea if Office Holder rules have changed with the new world of SDS etc. but I wouldn't have thought so as there is case history on this.

https://outsideir35.org.uk/jobs/inte...xWSDCjewMH?b=1

[Funhouse]

Best post on here for months and months (and months!)

Fantastic work, thank you!

[bluezee123]

Awesome work - I don't even know how to find outside IR35 roles in LI and here you've just automated it all. Best post on CUK in years!

Thanks mate! Yeah it's a bit fiddly and busy on LI which is why I knocked this out. I'm not looking too hard yet but might be in the new year (depends if I get extended) and I found it a real pain last time finding outside IR35 roles that matched my skills and experience, and the rate and role type (onsite/hybrid/remote) were usually buried in the description, so I had a feeling something like this which cuts through it all would come in handy!

Seems I'm not the only one and it's nice to be working on something that people are finding genuinely useful!

If you have any ideas or suggestions for improving it do let me know

[WTFH]

no worries, a lot of jobs don't hit the boards i suppose. more of an old boys network

Do you get agents contacting you by carrier pigeon?

[sadkingbilly]

Hardware manufacturers = good shout, any others you'd suggest apart from Cisco?

IBM

[bluezee123]

That's an interesting tool, thanks for sharing. A couple of thoughts:

I looked at one of the oldest adverts on your site (from 21st Oct):
Project Support Officer - £250/day - Edinburgh (On-site) | Outside IR35 Tech Jobs

When I clicked through to the LinkedIn post, it said "No longer accepting applications".
Project Support Officer | Venesky Brown | LinkedIn

In your Reddit post, you mentioned using apify, which I believe is an unofficial API to scrape LinkedIn (by using bots that pretend to be people). I don't know which features it supports, but I think you'll need some way to remove the old adverts, otherwise your list will get too cluttered.

The LinkedIn post also mentions the company name (in this case the recruitment agency), and it would make sense to put that in your listing too.

Looking at the drop-down list for infrastructure skills, I'd suggest adding a few hardware manufacturers (e.g. Cisco). It might also be useful to let people select the section heading (e.g. "all infrastructure roles" rather than a specific item).

Thanks this is really helpful feedback 👍

So yes, I've been winging it a bit so far, as most of the jobs were still live, but some are starting to close now so this does need sorting! I'm pretty sure the inactive jobs disappear from the Apify feed so it should just be as simple as mirroring this on outsideir35.org.uk, but I'm not 100% on this and don't want to inadvertently remove active jobs. I'll take a closer look at what data is available and figure out a reliable way to do it!

Yep we could include the company/recruiter. Tbh I didn't know how important this was (as you see it on LI if you click the link) and I wanted to keep the experience as simple and minimal as possible, but it could help people tell jobs from each other, i.e. if maybe they already clicked or applied for it, so yep I think I'll add that in.

Hardware manufacturers = good shout, any others you'd suggest apart from Cisco? And yes, being able to select the heading/category makes sense as well.

Leave this with me and thanks again!

[willendure]

Awesome work - I don't even know how to find outside IR35 roles in LI and here you've just automated it all. Best post on CUK in years!

[hobnob]

That's an interesting tool, thanks for sharing. A couple of thoughts:

I looked at one of the oldest adverts on your site (from 21st Oct):
Project Support Officer - £250/day - Edinburgh (On-site) | Outside IR35 Tech Jobs

When I clicked through to the LinkedIn post, it said "No longer accepting applications".
Project Support Officer | Venesky Brown | LinkedIn

In your Reddit post, you mentioned using apify, which I believe is an unofficial API to scrape LinkedIn (by using bots that pretend to be people). I don't know which features it supports, but I think you'll need some way to remove the old adverts, otherwise your list will get too cluttered.

The LinkedIn post also mentions the company name (in this case the recruitment agency), and it would make sense to put that in your listing too.

Looking at the drop-down list for infrastructure skills, I'd suggest adding a few hardware manufacturers (e.g. Cisco). It might also be useful to let people select the section heading (e.g. "all infrastructure roles" rather than a specific item).

[sadkingbilly]

Thanks for the suggestion! I did a quick check and no matches currently in the source data (all outside IR35 jobs on LinkedIn) for "zseries" or "mainframe", and currently the skills dropdown only shows skills that have active job matches (otherwise it would get quite unwieldy!)

However, for some niche terms obviously jobs only come up every now and then (especially as we're also filtering by outside IR35 only), and the point of this site is to alert you to them! So... I need to think how best to handle this... Maybe I can add another page with all the skills (even ones with no active job matches) so you can click into that page and create an email alert (button top right) so you get an email when there are some jobs that match.

Or something like that!

Leave it with me

no worries, a lot of jobs don't hit the boards i suppose. more of an old boys network

[bluezee123]

no Zseries skills? mainframe? legacy systems need maintenance/upgrading regularly.

Thanks for the suggestion! I did a quick check and no matches currently in the source data (all outside IR35 jobs on LinkedIn) for "zseries" or "mainframe", and currently the skills dropdown only shows skills that have active job matches (otherwise it would get quite unwieldy!)

However, for some niche terms obviously jobs only come up every now and then (especially as we're also filtering by outside IR35 only), and the point of this site is to alert you to them! So... I need to think how best to handle this... Maybe I can add another page with all the skills (even ones with no active job matches) so you can click into that page and create an email alert (button top right) so you get an email when there are some jobs that match.

Or something like that!

Leave it with me

[bluezee123]

Looks like a neat tool.
Well done and thank you.

Glad you like it - thank you!