Reply to: The Apprentice is...

[courtg9000]

One fifth of Nigerians in the NHS allegedly have dodgy qualifications in a country which suffers a lot from fraud, I still find that shocking.

One wonders how many other nationalities have done similar, remember Indian fake degrees in IT? As with the other links and the clear indication many had poor command of English and in my experience sometimes very strong accents. Maybe we should be careful who we employ especially patient facing?

If you think that is racist that seems to be your problem.

As a time served apprentice I know exactly what that it entails, you do the everyday work and when you get stuck your boss eventually explains it to you when he is free.
Funnily enough Sony walkmans don't bleed out while you are waiting a few hours for the boss to be free.

Not really ideal though in a life & death situation.

Not sure if you have watched "This is going to hurt" but it was commended by many Doctors as sadly accurate. "Junior Doctors" have full degree based medical training, placements, plus rotations and they still frequently feel like they are underqualified.

Now paying for the doctor's training makes sense this is part of the reason so few are trained or move abroad. If they had a loan that was written off if they stayed in the NHS for X years but have to pay if they move abroad or go Private that would make sense.

We do however have other issues, many GP appointments can be done by Nurses (27% currently) & other staff, via the internet or via the phone. A central booking system by 111 would make a lot of sense rather than queueing outside the doctors at 8am for an appointment. I don't mind driving 15 minutes to go to another less busy surgery.

Attendance is 90.7% so 9.3% of appointments are wasted. If people were fined for none attendance we would have ~10% more appointments used. They do at least text reminders now.

This is interesting they do at least seem to be categorising appointments. Maybe they will find a decent mix.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-conten...ries-21-22.pdf

It seems that adding a DVLA flag & classification on medical records could and extracts for the various chargeable jobs would mean less doctor time.

As mentioned Pharmacists are qualified to do many medicine reviews. e.g. contraception, anti depressants etc. Giving them the ability to prescribe or free issue fairly safe things like contraception or special shampoos/creams in small amounts. Or antibiotics for a repeating illness like tonsillitis where a doctor has done so before.

Processes to treat each disease are poorly defined and rely on the Doctors expertise which as Court suggests seems to be guesswork in many cases. Most well organised organisations define the flow for common situations. The only 'pathways' we seem to have are for killing patients.

some of what you say is okay but some of it is more bulltulip than a boris johnson defence document. I have had 6 pints. About to have a 7th will respond more tommorow once hangover gone.

[vetran]

Nice chance to slip in a racial element.
I doubt you are so fundamentally ignorant that you think "apprenticeships" are the same as "doing work experience", just a poor troll attempt.

One fifth of Nigerians in the NHS allegedly have dodgy qualifications in a country which suffers a lot from fraud, I still find that shocking.

One wonders how many other nationalities have done similar, remember Indian fake degrees in IT? As with the other links and the clear indication many had poor command of English and in my experience sometimes very strong accents. Maybe we should be careful who we employ especially patient facing?

If you think that is racist that seems to be your problem.

As a time served apprentice I know exactly what that it entails, you do the everyday work and when you get stuck your boss eventually explains it to you when he is free.
Funnily enough Sony walkmans don't bleed out while you are waiting a few hours for the boss to be free.

Not really ideal though in a life & death situation.

Not sure if you have watched "This is going to hurt" but it was commended by many Doctors as sadly accurate. "Junior Doctors" have full degree based medical training, placements, plus rotations and they still frequently feel like they are underqualified.

Now paying for the doctor's training makes sense this is part of the reason so few are trained or move abroad. If they had a loan that was written off if they stayed in the NHS for X years but have to pay if they move abroad or go Private that would make sense.

We do however have other issues, many GP appointments can be done by Nurses (27% currently) & other staff, via the internet or via the phone. A central booking system by 111 would make a lot of sense rather than queueing outside the doctors at 8am for an appointment. I don't mind driving 15 minutes to go to another less busy surgery.

Attendance is 90.7% so 9.3% of appointments are wasted. If people were fined for none attendance we would have ~10% more appointments used. They do at least text reminders now.

This is interesting they do at least seem to be categorising appointments. Maybe they will find a decent mix.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-conten...ries-21-22.pdf

It seems that adding a DVLA flag & classification on medical records could and extracts for the various chargeable jobs would mean less doctor time.

As mentioned Pharmacists are qualified to do many medicine reviews. e.g. contraception, anti depressants etc. Giving them the ability to prescribe or free issue fairly safe things like contraception or special shampoos/creams in small amounts. Or antibiotics for a repeating illness like tonsillitis where a doctor has done so before.

Processes to treat each disease are poorly defined and rely on the Doctors expertise which as Court suggests seems to be guesswork in many cases. Most well organised organisations define the flow for common situations. The only 'pathways' we seem to have are for killing patients.

[Zigenare]

Her case was so "interesting" it was reported in other news outlets.

My comment addresses your link. Not the article or the person in question.

[SueEllen]

I can't be seen reading the Grauniad! People will think I'm a bloody socialist FFS!

Her case was so "interesting" it was reported in other news outlets.

[Gibbon]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-jailed.html
https://newspeakonline.com/fake-nige...-jailed-in-uk/
https://www.chronicle.ng/2017/06/nig...efrauding-nhs/

Knock yerself out.

doogie has trouble between the nuances of a nation state with very well documented corrupt practices and race. Interestingly it is this very fear of been labelled racist that allows these individuals to get away with it putting patients at risk, but then its worse to be called racist than have have unexpected outcomes for patients isn't it!

[Zigenare]

Nice chance to slip in a racial element.
I doubt you are so fundamentally ignorant that you think "apprenticeships" are the same as "doing work experience", just a poor troll attempt.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ls-jailed.html
https://newspeakonline.com/fake-nige...-jailed-in-uk/
https://www.chronicle.ng/2017/06/nig...efrauding-nhs/

Knock yerself out.

[Zigenare]

And there is this lady who luckily can't detain you anymore -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...re-of-scrutiny

I can't be seen reading the Grauniad! People will think I'm a bloody socialist FFS!

[d000hg]

oh goodo from dicey Nigerians with dodgy qualifications we get the work experience boy!

Nice chance to slip in a racial element.
I doubt you are so fundamentally ignorant that you think "apprenticeships" are the same as "doing work experience", just a poor troll attempt.

[SueEllen]

Dicey Nigerians(other dicey nationalities are available) can be, should've been and would've been weeded out if the feckless wastrels within the NHS would get off their arses and actually do their bloody jobs!

And there is this lady who luckily can't detain you anymore -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...re-of-scrutiny

[DoctorStrangelove]

Dicey Nigerians(other dicey nationalities are available) can be, should've been and would've been weeded out if the feckless wastrels within the NHS would get off their arses and actually do their bloody jobs!

Be quiet & swallow your shampoo:

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....-bogus-doctor/

[courtg9000]

Ah, what can go wrong...NHS is already at laughable level, I have some doctors in the family and when they hear about the approach for "treatment" often taken by NHS they just shake their heads in disbelief (although I think Ireland takes the cake when it comes to absolutely irrelevant steps taken when trying to "treat" someone).

If doctors who went through proper uni can't do things right, what chance non-uni trainees have?

Don't get me started on Irish healthcare. Especially pain control.

[courtg9000]

Some here know about my health, for those that do not - its not great and I have to spend quite a bit of time in the company of health professionals. When I turn up in A&E at least one senior consultant gets bleeped and sometimes more than one. No, I'm not joking.

There are various ways already that we have staff in the NHS that are not as qualified as they should be treating us. Especially those we import from abroad to plug the gaps. Parts of the rulebook on this gets broken by trust's every day.

This could close some of the gap, but it needs to be part of a larger package of measures. The biggest thing the NHS needs to do and has needed to do for years is close the gender gap. This is bit is from a blog I wrote about fixing the NHS earlier year.
"The NHS is split along traditional lines at 75% female at 25% male. Every year it loses an estimated 12% of its female staff in the 21-46 age bracket on long term leave owing to maternity leave. Some 40% of those never return to work in the NHS. More men would not eradicate this issue but it would undoubtedly help in areas of extremely high pressure."

I'm not sure I would trust these apprentices with my large catalogue of health issues especially in an A&E setting. Bottom line they would not have the level of experience to handle it.

[dsc]

Ah, what can go wrong...NHS is already at laughable level, I have some doctors in the family and when they hear about the approach for "treatment" often taken by NHS they just shake their heads in disbelief (although I think Ireland takes the cake when it comes to absolutely irrelevant steps taken when trying to "treat" someone).

If doctors who went through proper uni can't do things right, what chance non-uni trainees have?

[edison]

This scheme has been in the works for a couple of years now.

In theory I don't see a problem with it but given the constraints on current doctor capacity, one major problem could be students getting enough supervised time with experienced staff. This is a common problem for apprentice schemes in different sectors.

As I understand it, it's still a degree level apprenticeship and the students will undergo the same medical training. The difference is the entry point and targeting students who traditionally wouldn't go down the university route.

The pilot will have 200 students so I guess we'll see the results in years to come but it doesn't sound like the scheme is really going to dent the large shortage of doctors needed, at least not in the next few years.

[Zigenare]

oh goodo from dicey Nigerians with dodgy qualifications we get the work experience boy!

Dicey Nigerians(other dicey nationalities are available) can be, should've been and would've been weeded out if the feckless wastrels within the NHS would get off their arses and actually do their bloody jobs!