Reply to: Incoming dividend tax raid

[malvolio]

I'm not sure that this argument that the Tories are low tax, and Labour are high tax stands anymore given the taxes that the Tories have raised in their tenure. I'm not saying labour wouldn't raise certain taxes, but they are more likely to target the well off whilst the Tories target everyone except the super rich.

But ... both raises taxes.

Yes, and both listen to the Treasury. that's the fundamental problem here. The only real difference now is that Labour will hit the wealth creators out of habit while the Tories will hit everyone.

[Whorty]

I'm not really saying that... I'm saying that there is seemingly no alternative if the government wants to have a viable economy. They can't just run a huge deficit without losing credibility on the markets (hence the Lizpocalypse). Labour would raise taxes considerably for ideological reasons, the Tories ideologically disagree with it but cannot pragmatically see any other option. The end result might not be very different. People talk as if there is "a way out" from recession like the right policies will magically fix everything, but the truth is sometimes it's just bad. If there isn't enough money, something has to give. That's how I see it anyway

I'm not sure that this argument that the Tories are low tax, and Labour are high tax stands anymore given the taxes that the Tories have raised in their tenure. I'm not saying labour wouldn't raise certain taxes, but they are more likely to target the well off whilst the Tories target everyone except the super rich.

But ... both raises taxes.

[d000hg]

Possibly, although I do rather think "you think this is bad, it would have been even worse under Labour" is becoming a bit of a tired trope, and perhaps the last refuge of some die hard Tories (not accusing you of that, btw).

I'm not really saying that... I'm saying that there is seemingly no alternative if the government wants to have a viable economy. They can't just run a huge deficit without losing credibility on the markets (hence the Lizpocalypse). Labour would raise taxes considerably for ideological reasons, the Tories ideologically disagree with it but cannot pragmatically see any other option. The end result might not be very different. People talk as if there is "a way out" from recession like the right policies will magically fix everything, but the truth is sometimes it's just bad. If there isn't enough money, something has to give. That's how I see it anyway

[Lance]

Strangely the profession disagrees with her.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinica...nd-28-04-2021/

https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-...14%20vacancies).

https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-...14%20vacancies).

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/wo...pe-15-09-2022/

they cite poor government planning and low pay.

Interestingly enough we aren't the only country with the issue, one assumes the candidates in the US are all thickies?
https://avanthealthcare.com/blog/the...20%20to%202030.

i bet they are glad they have her in their corner.

You have listed articles about job vacancies. I was talking about people for training.
The lack of staff is due to lack of trained staff.

And the "profession" don't have much that much of an idea of the state of that unless they work in a teaching hospital (and if they do they don't have time to write political articles.)

Poor government planning I get, except all the government have done insofar as education is concerned, is lift the cap on trainee numbers (something that only the unions don't like), and remove the bursary.

[_V_]

INKSPE.

Does one only have a single drawing room?

It does, but it's upwardly mobile like myself.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175256417...8AAOSwnMRiScJi

[AtW]

CGT was simplified by removing inflation indexing but lowering the headline rate to compensate. If we do adjust CGT to be taxed at the same rate as income (not a terrible idea - CGT allowances and rates are quite generous here and almost all enjoyed by the wealthy), then we would have to bring back some sort of indexation - otherwise people are going to be paying tax on nominal gainz with real losses, which seems a bit crazy to me.

[mattster]

Dividends are a way for companies to distribute profits to shareholders; contractors are an edge case which shouldn't dictate how dividends are taxed generally.
Maybe it's about time we found a better solution than having to run a Ltd to be a contractor, which is a fairly direct side-effect of the UK setup. No idea how you get that ball rolling when clients and agents seem to expect it (not to mention insurance/liability), but if income were equally taxed regardless of source we'd have no benefit from running a company. All things being equal it would be simpler.

Agree completely with this, although the concept of double taxation needs to be considered. As already mentioned in this thread, the reason that divs didn't use to get taxed in the lower band was because tax was considered to already have been paid via corporation tax.

In a similar way (kind of), CGT was simplified by removing inflation indexing but lowering the headline rate to compensate. If we do adjust CGT to be taxed at the same rate as income (not a terrible idea - CGT allowances and rates are quite generous here and almost all enjoyed by the wealthy), then we would have to bring back some sort of indexation - otherwise people are going to be paying tax on nominal gainz with real losses, which seems a bit crazy to me.

[vetran]

I only have one Porch, I must be poor

INKSPE.

Does one only have a single drawing room?

[Unix]

I only have one Porch, I must be poor

Want to buy one of mine, has a couch and table

[_V_]

Tory scum! Better sell one of my Porches now

I only have one Porch, I must be poor

[Unix]

Tory scum! Better sell one of my Porches now

[vetran]

none. The problem with training enough nurses isn't lack of funds.
It's lack of suitable people. My wide works in higher education in health. There is no shortage of candidates, who will pay for it themselves, they're just thick/crap/lazy. And a lot are only interested in a degree course as it means they aren't married off and turned into a baby factory for a few years (they'll never actually work even if they do get qualified).

Strangely the profession disagrees with her.

https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinica...nd-28-04-2021/

https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-...14%20vacancies).

https://nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-...14%20vacancies).

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/wo...pe-15-09-2022/

they cite poor government planning and low pay.

Interestingly enough we aren't the only country with the issue, one assumes the candidates in the US are all thickies?
https://avanthealthcare.com/blog/the...20%20to%202030.

i bet they are glad they have her in their corner.

[jamesbrown]

I'm guessing there'll be a surge of £2K dividends on the "16th" if Hunt's budget lowers the threshold...

These changes won't be introduced until the new tax year because they need to be legislated. There are some that can be introduced on budget day, but the big ones will be deferred, as usual.

[mattster]

This is nowhere near what Corbyn would have done. He would have done all this and jumped all personal/CT rates substantially as well, and introduced a wealth tax, and probably lots of other things.

This is a seemingly inevitable result of a hole in the finances. If your expenditure outstrips your income you have to decrease the former and/or increase the latter. Balancing a budget isn't socialist, it's not right or left it's the only option. Other than allow national debt to skyrocket which is only delaying the inevitable.

Possibly, although I do rather think "you think this is bad, it would have been even worse under Labour" is becoming a bit of a tired trope, and perhaps the last refuge of some die hard Tories (not accusing you of that, btw).
What's happening now in this country is starting to look a bit like a death spiral - we already have the highest tax take in 70 years and public services in crisis. Both are about to get significantly worse, and as a country we've been getting poorer compared to our peers for a decade or more. Where does it end? What is the plan to get out of this apart from tax rises and cost cutting? I see a significant brain drain (ex pats and Brits) coming up once the realisation of how bad things are going to be dawns which will only make things worse. We're screwed for at least another decade or more..

[TheDude]

I can't say I am bothered unless I ever go outside IR35 again in which case this is the greatest injustice ever.