Reply to: Welcome to Gilead

[d000hg]

Well if you know any and have proof report them to social services. Though don't be surprised if social services have them on their radar anyway.

So it is considered abuse as far as you're aware?

[NotAllThere]

What a hear breaking story. Poor couple. The horrific outcome they are having to deal with and then have to argue to detail over and over again because of the legal situation. I mean, 'wait until the heartbeat has stopped'. Jesus wept. What a conversation to be having with them at that time.
I'm absolutely rubbish with people and empathy but I couldn't even bear to finish reading the article.

In another article, one of the chief Maltese doctors, interviewed by Maltese TV, questioned the validity of her attending doctor's decision and interpretation of the law.

[SueEllen]

I'm not sure how relevant this is to the question. It might not be the norm but there are certainly drug users and alcoholics who breastfeed - for one thing it's a lot cheaper than formula so this leaves more money for substances.

Well if you know any and have proof report them to social services. Though don't be surprised if social services have them on their radar anyway.

[d000hg]

How likely is a woman who is a heavy substance abuser to breast feed?

Breast feeding is not the main way of feeding babies in the UK unless you are in certain demographics. (Most of the women on here would fall into those demographics.)

I'm not sure how relevant this is to the question. It might not be the norm but there are certainly drug users and alcoholics who breastfeed - for one thing it's a lot cheaper than formula so this leaves more money for substances.

[vetran]

Apologies, I misread the original question.

I meant, I personally would consider it child abuse considering the impact it has on the child. I have no idea what the legalities are.

I can't see how breast feeding a child after drinking a pint of vodka is any different to directly giving a child vodka to drink. Other than making it a bit more palatable.

For mothers with drugs / alcohol issues, they need to be able to access baby formula so as not to put their children at risk.

agree

[vetran]

How likely is a woman who is a heavy substance abuser to breast feed?

Breast feeding is not the main way of feeding babies in the UK unless you are in certain demographics. (Most of the women on here would fall into those demographics.)

sadly I suspect its far too common

[vetran]

I already posted that.

You also read it when I give some of the circumstances why you shouldn't ban abortion.

you know the discussion is not binary?

[SueEllen]

I'm unclear on LM's reply also - and it's a genuine question as I don't know the law here. There are circumstances social services will take your baby away but I'm not sure if this is one of them.

How likely is a woman who is a heavy substance abuser to breast feed?

Breast feeding is not the main way of feeding babies in the UK unless you are in certain demographics. (Most of the women on here would fall into those demographics.)

[SueEllen]

Interesting case here, concerning Malta. https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/23/...fe-say-doctors

I already posted that.

You also read it when I give some of the circumstances why you shouldn't ban abortion.

[ladymuck]

yes drinking significant amounts of alcohol will affect the baby or yes its technically possible but unwise?

I'm unclear on LM's reply also - and it's a genuine question as I don't know the law here. There are circumstances social services will take your baby away but I'm not sure if this is one of them.

Apologies, I misread the original question.

I meant, I personally would consider it child abuse considering the impact it has on the child. I have no idea what the legalities are.

I can't see how breast feeding a child after drinking a pint of vodka is any different to directly giving a child vodka to drink. Other than making it a bit more palatable.

For mothers with drugs / alcohol issues, they need to be able to access baby formula so as not to put their children at risk.

[northernladuk]

Interesting case here, concerning Malta. https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/23/...fe-say-doctors

What a hear breaking story. Poor couple. The horrific outcome they are having to deal with and then have to argue to detail over and over again because of the legal situation. I mean, 'wait until the heartbeat has stopped'. Jesus wept. What a conversation to be having with them at that time.
I'm absolutely rubbish with people and empathy but I couldn't even bear to finish reading the article.

[cojak]

Interesting case here, concerning Malta. https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/23/...fe-say-doctors

Yes, fortunately she was American and had good travel health insurance - they flew her to Spain to get the procedure done.

[NotAllThere]

Interesting case here, concerning Malta. https://www.euronews.com/2022/06/23/...fe-say-doctors

Despite her 16-week-old foetus no longer being viable and the acute risks to her life, doctors told Prudente, 38, from the Seattle area, she could not have an abortion as it is illegal in Malta, according to Weeldreyer.

He said staff at Mater Dei hospital in Msida informed them that she must instead wait until her foetus' heartbeat stops or there is an imminent risk to her life before it can be removed

[d000hg]

yes drinking significant amounts of alcohol will affect the baby or yes its technically possible but unwise?

I'm unclear on LM's reply also - and it's a genuine question as I don't know the law here. There are circumstances social services will take your baby away but I'm not sure if this is one of them.

[d000hg]

When a fetus is inside the womb they aren't different things.

Until you are born you are reliant on the law to recognise when you have a separate body.

In the UK this doesn't happen until you are 23 weeks and 6 days if you don't have an abnormality, or until birth if you do.

So when it pops out it magically transforms from a blob of cells to a human being? I thought I was the one who believed crazy things.
Do we think UK law defines when someone is a person? Or only determines when they are granted legal status? If the law changes from 24 to 22 or 20 weeks, does this represent some fundamental change in truth... clearly not.

Are you saying that an abortion performed once you were already in labour would not be killing a baby? Or during the act of birth itself when it's half in half out? You're saying there's a magical transition point so can you say precisely when that is?