Reply to: 30p to make a cooked meal - Tory Hypocrisy

[vetran]

Because that is down to either the council or a charity. The council can't afford it without turning off some other element of their funding and risking the wrath of the council tax payers. Existing charities are already busy with their own causes. Plus - from local experience - if it's free it's not worth anything and if you are asked for a "donation" to attend they can't/won't afford it.

We have locals here who think taking the grandchildren to Morrisons for an egg and chips lunch is a major treat (and complain about the slow service...). Don't over-estimate the scope of people's ambition.

the government should mandate it for recipients of JSA if they are attending a course they can't be working elsewhere or getting into trouble.

Nothing wrong with small ambition we have to remember half the population is below average. Its having no ambition to work that is the problem.

[malvolio]

...while we are at it why not invite the unemployed to job hunting training?

Because that is down to either the council or a charity. The council can't afford it without turning off some other element of their funding and risking the wrath of the council tax payers. Existing charities are already busy with their own causes. Plus - from local experience - if it's free it's not worth anything and if you are asked for a "donation" to attend they can't/won't afford it.

We have locals here who think taking the grandchildren to Morrisons for an egg and chips lunch is a major treat (and complain about the slow service...). Don't over-estimate the scope of people's ambition.

[vetran]

Yes of course there are. It's a situation common across the globe that you find generational consequences of such things. For instance black areas and a lot of core Trump voting districts in the US are examples. Germany certainly has its own examples and I'm not sure why on earth you'd think otherwise.

The facts don't care that you have the get up and go. The facts are that many don't, and whether that's their own sloth (your argument) or because they've been ingrained from a young age (my argument) is immaterial; they don't have these skills or know the way to get them.

I'm sure nobody thinks it would be bad for poor people to know how to cook simple, affordable food from scratch. But "they should just be taught how to cook" is not a solution. How is that to be implemented especially in more rural areas?

The point about our friend was it didn't happen until she was pushed, there must be millions out there who are in the same boat.

The fact there are areas of under employment because traditional industries closed says a lot about the government. It also shows that the people need guidance. Slough was the brick kiln for London, its been decades since bricks were made here yet its near full employment for people who want a job.

I know rural broadband is bad but most people can get youtube, we also have a national broadcaster that has national coverage. Alternatively you can schedule meetings in local schools during the holidays, while we are at it why not invite the unemployed to job hunting training?

[d000hg]

The coal mines have been closing for a hundred years ever since they discovered the ICE and being mechanised for the same time. Are there ex miners whining in Germany or France?

Yes of course there are. It's a situation common across the globe that you find generational consequences of such things. For instance black areas and a lot of core Trump voting districts in the US are examples. Germany certainly has its own examples and I'm not sure why on earth you'd think otherwise.

I have had 3 industries effectively close on me in 35 years you don't find me on benefits bemoaning the fact no one repairs tellies anymore. I do find it funny I dodged a bullet by watching it be aimed at me.

Its going to be rocky and a few experts helping those in need learn how to survive is a good thing.

The facts don't care that you have the get up and go. The facts are that many don't, and whether that's their own sloth (your argument) or because they've been ingrained from a young age (my argument) is immaterial; they don't have these skills or know the way to get them.

I'm sure nobody thinks it would be bad for poor people to know how to cook simple, affordable food from scratch. But "they should just be taught how to cook" is not a solution. How is that to be implemented especially in more rural areas?

[vetran]

Good for her. A TA is a skilled job though. Leagues apart from the real deprived sections of society. I'm a huge fan of the "pull yourself up" mentality but that itself has to be taught and once you're out of school this is tremendously difficult. There are reasons why we have generational poverty and deprivation, because it's an incredibly hard cycle to break.
Posting a few "how to cook" leaflets through the door isn't going to fix it and given many areas are still reeling from the coal mines closing, neither major political party has had much impact in fixing it. Policies that provide opportunities are great but there is a big section of society who are simply missed. Of course, they never vote.

Actually it was really good for her, from a doley baby factory she has a new self respect and lease of life. The TAs were not highly qualified at the time, there is a hierarchy you start hand holding the SEN kids then work up. It is however very rewarding.

She was a long time benefit claimant without a future, ok she wasn't shooting up running out of veins and stealing razors but it was a good transition from a bad place. The more we can do this the better it will be.

The coal mines have been closing for a hundred years ever since they discovered the ICE and being mechanised for the same time. Are there ex miners whining in Germany or France? Friends got on their bike and came down south or joined the forces there are ways out other than joining the cast of trainspotting.

I have had 3 industries effectively close on me in 35 years you don't find me on benefits bemoaning the fact no one repairs tellies anymore. I do find it funny I dodged a bullet by watching it be aimed at me.

Its going to be rocky and a few experts helping those in need learn how to survive is a good thing.

[d000hg]

Well our friend who has 4 kids by different fathers was told that her benefits were going to be cut when the youngest hit 5, so she got a job as a TA which maintained her benefits. She then with the support of her employer has started an apprenticeship to do a degree. All the kids are still breathing and she isn't turning tricks.

Good for her. A TA is a skilled job though. Leagues apart from the real deprived sections of society. I'm a huge fan of the "pull yourself up" mentality but that itself has to be taught and once you're out of school this is tremendously difficult. There are reasons why we have generational poverty and deprivation, because it's an incredibly hard cycle to break.
Posting a few "how to cook" leaflets through the door isn't going to fix it and given many areas are still reeling from the coal mines closing, neither major political party has had much impact in fixing it. Policies that provide opportunities are great but there is a big section of society who are simply missed. Of course, they never vote.

[d000hg]

I would say that was a outlier case. Most on low incomes know where to go to get the maximum they can. White goods, including washing machines, come under 'essential' and are sorted out pronto for those that ask.

I'd certainly dispute that anecdotally. Our local village FB group is full of people who don't know what is available to them. And then even people who know things fall between the cracks all the time and can make no headway sorting it out. They are ignored and impotent often in the face of "computer says no" mentality.
Latest example was council-tax energy rebate thing (£150 I think). A minority of people just didn't get the money and all attempts to contact the council got stock answers. You or I might know not to take no for an answer but we routinely see people who basically just sit there and take all the crap they're dealt because that's what they expect life to be like.
A lot of charity groups run in conjunction with food banks and the like and just help these sort of people know what their rights are. From debt relief to threatening bill letters to "did you know you can get money for X from this website".

[vetran]

You don't know who I know in real life, so whatever.

so who do you know in real life are your Boris's bit on the side?

Do they not read legislation?

[SueEllen]

Do explain the assumptions. From your tone I'm assuming you think these are them.

Blah....

You don't know who I know in real life, so whatever.

[alreadypacked]

I see how they have come up with the numbers

Shepherd's pie - 26p to 32p per portion
Ingredients (for 12-15 portions)
One stick of celery

This is a great recipe, high in protein, with three vegetables.

I don't think one stick of celery between 12 people counts as one of your five a day!

[vetran]

Nice reverse ferret.

huh?

[NotAllThere]

So let us engage, teach them to cook and dream of bettering themselves! I see massive savings in benefits and a happier populace

Nice reverse ferret.

[vetran]

This is exactly my point

So let us engage, teach them to cook and dream of bettering themselves! I see massive savings in benefits and a happier populace

[TheDude]

Those without hope have frequently been abandoned by society.

This is exactly my point

[vetran]

I would say that was a outlier case. Most on low incomes know where to go to get the maximum they can. White goods, including washing machines, come under 'essential' and are sorted out pronto for those that ask.

Indeed as are furniture via charity donating directly or being sold at significant discount from charity shops.

Teaching home economics is hardly the insult its being portrayed as.