Reply to: £70,000 perm or £500pd inside IR35 6 month contract...

[GJABS]

• I ... have become a bit isolated and weird

You've come to just the right place. Welcome

[northernladuk]

The most successful employee I know, a real superstar, did 15 years at the same investment bank.

FTFY

[Fraidycat]

Or we all need to be more like Fraidy .... he sounds like an absolute superstar (but then, why is he so bitter? Answers on a postcard )

I am not quite a superstar.

I can be extremely hard working and I am also a extremely gifted programmer and very easy to work with to boot.

Ideal qualities needed to be a superstar developer.

However i am also high in Neuroticism which is the tendency to experience negative emotions, such as stress, anger, anxiety, depression etc.

I am therefore quite emotionally unstable.

Over the decades i have had some very good runs at contracting but then i eventually sabotage myself and quit working for long stretches.

The best contractors are able to stick with contracts for very long periods without sabotaging themselves.

The most successful contractor i know, a real superstar, did 15 years at the same investment bank.

[Whorty]

I'm in a perm at the moment due to personal circumstances ... living in a part of the country I knew I wasn't staying in, where contracts not so easy to come by, so getting a perm was easier. I'll be heading back to the big smoke soon and once the projects I'm working on are delivered I'll look to leave and pick up contracts again.

However, I consider each role, whether perm or contract, as temporary. Companies are not loyal anymore so a perm is only as 'perm' as the company choose to make it, and in that first 2 years you could be given notice for next to zero reason. I'm personally loyal to my team, and delivering the project, but I'm not loyal to the company in the wider sense and never been a company man. The way I see it, I'm paid for my skills whether I'm a contractor or perm and so long as I'm delivering, they are paying, I'm not bored and the red tape is no onerous, then all is good.

In your shoes personally, I'd take the contract .... but we all wear different shoes so you need to do what's right for you.

Or we all need to be more like Fraidy .... he sounds like an absolute superstar (but then, why is he so bitter? Answers on a postcard )

[northernladuk]

I should probably have added upthread I've never had a Ltd company and have always used an umbrella, which might (or not!) go a bit further towards explaining my mindset!

Ahhhh right got you. Yeah, that puts a different spin on it. You are going to have to dig through what I put and try ignore the bits relating to LTD then. Sorry about that.

[sdd]

Which, with no disrespect, would really make you a disguised perm rather than a contractor. Nothing wrong with that if it works for you but you work you carry out are gigs, your job is to go find them, run your business and keep income coming in to your business. Might appear to be the same thing and just a mind set but it's not really when you start digging in to it. But either way, if it works for you then fair enough.

I should probably have added upthread I've never had a Ltd company and have always used an umbrella, which might (or not!) go a bit further towards explaining my mindset!

[northernladuk]

I used to find it hard to get out of bed for 3K a month when i was perm back in day. I was always late in, would get to the office sometime between 10-11am. Would annoy almost every manager i worked with. Some a lot more than others.

As a contractor with that £10K+ hitting the account, even though it wasn't all mine and still needed to be corp taxed. I never had a problem getting out of bed and into work on time.

But you are the best contractor ever and if the client isn't paying you 1k then they don't value you properly and all that stuff no?

OP, just take note of the bold bit at the bottom. And he's managed to reach those depths in under 650 posts.

Fraidycat

Fingers like lightning
Fraidycat reputation0

[northernladuk]

I would take a contract for less money just to avoid having to ever speak to HR.

Cause speaking to agents is infinitely better?

[northernladuk]

[I've never really thought of myself as a career contractor, or as really having a career at all really. I just look at it as a series of 'jobs', some perm, some contract.

Which, with no disrespect, would really make you a disguised perm rather than a contractor. Nothing wrong with that if it works for you but you work you carry out are gigs, your job is to go find them, run your business and keep income coming in to your business. Might appear to be the same thing and just a mind set but it's not really when you start digging in to it. But either way, if it works for you then fair enough.

It would be easier to consider a contracting career as it's a single role that covers multiple gigs. Your approach rather complicates it so many look at it as perm role vs what ever your would be doing for the next 2 to 5 years down the other route. This will still include bench time but maybe not so much if your next job after the contract is perm if you get me. Just make sure the comparison is equal in timescales at least as that throws up other things to consider.

[Fraidycat]

100% this or..... performance reviews

I used to find it hard to get out of bed for 3K a month when i was perm back in day. I was always late in, would get to the office sometime between 10-11am. Would annoy almost every manager i worked with. Some a lot more than others.

As a contractor with that £10K+ hitting the account, even though it wasn't all mine and still needed to be corp taxed. I never had a problem getting out of bed and into work on time.

[sdd]

I would take a contract for less money just to avoid having to ever speak to HR.

I mean, yeah XD

[sdd]

If you really are ok with not taking many (or any) days off, then take the contract.

70K is tulip for 2022. Was offered almost 70K for perm job back in 2000. Having said that i was also on £600 a day back in 2000. So the contract rate you are being offered is tulip as well.

In the perm role do you get any bonus or share options on top?

There is a performance related bonus, but it's not particularly significant (5-10%) and it's apparently only given to very high performers so I'm not keen to take it into account.

Thanks for calling the wage I've been offered tulip :P If you have any advice on how/where to get more I'm all ears!

[sdd]

northernladuk Thanks for the response. I agree that not being overly interested in perm benefits such as paid leave, health schemes etc. isn't a con. I think it made it onto that list because I'd much prefer if they scrapped them and increased the salary instead, but you're right, they aren't cons. I suppose I'm just tired of having them sold to me as pros.

The contract comes with a higher chance of an extension than some others out there, but of course I appreciate that there are no guarantees and am not making any assumptions other than acknowledging the chance. It's a large scale transformation project that will take more than 6 months to complete. I understand that a lot can change/go wrong in this time. I listed the chance of extension as a pro but that was probably a bit disingenuous of me, as it's a pro over a different kind of contract (e.g. a three month quick and dirty implementation) rather than a perm job.

It's an interesting point you make about comparing a perm job to my contracting 'career' as opposed to a single contract. I'll think more about this, because at the moment I don't view it in that way. I've never really thought of myself as a career contractor, or as really having a career at all really. I just look at it as a series of 'jobs', some perm, some contract.

[GregRickshaw]

I would take a contract for less money just to avoid having to ever speak to HR.

100% this or..... performance reviews

[Fraidycat]

Perm role would be about £3700 take home after tax and pension, contract about £5500 after umbrella fees, everyone and his dog's NI, tax and personal pension.

If you really are ok with not taking many (or any) days off, then take the contract.

70K is tulip for 2022. Was offered almost 70K for perm job back in 2000. Having said that i was also on £600 a day back in 2000. So the contract rate you are being offered is tulip as well.

In the perm role do you get any bonus or share options on top?