Reply to: UA doctor ordered staff to CASTRATE RU soldiers - later says NO WE WONT

[NotAllThere]

Ok, the topic has converged on the main Ukraine thread, so I'll close it now.

[DealorNoDeal]

But I do think he was to some extent practically justified, due to recent US plotting in Ukraine for years, and Ukraine's misguided acceptance of this (which they had every right to do, and maybe couldn't realistically avoid - I really don't know).

The trouble with someone like Putin is, if they decide they're going to do something, they'll always find a way of justifying it. If necessary, they'll even make stuff up.

Without getting inside his head, we'll never really know his actual motivation for invading Ukraine, because we can't take anything he says at face value.

[d000hg]

I do think he [Putin] was to some extent practically justified

I think that's all we need to know.

[OwlHoot]

I can't tell whether OH supports the invasion, or not, but he does appear to believe that Putin was justified to some extent. I'm just not sure how big the "some" actually is.

I don't support the invasion or believe that Putin was morally justified. But I do think he was to some extent practically justified, due to recent US plotting in Ukraine for years, and Ukraine's misguided acceptance of this (which they had every right to do, and maybe couldn't realistically avoid - I really don't know).

When Machiavelli wrote his book The Prince, his advice to rulers on statecraft, he expressly said in the preface words to the effect "Most of this advice is not moral, or just. It is not what you _should_ do, to be virtuous, but what you _must_ do for your state to prosper or even survive."

One can't always judge state morality by the same criteria as personal morality, as some round here seem to believe or so desperately want to. It doesn't work like that.

[Whorty]

Are you for real? Only one side is deliberately shelling civilian buildings including hospitals. The Ukrainians only 'crime' appears to be killing vastly more Russian troops than anyone expected, including Putin. I think you need to educate yourself on what a war crime is.

He was being sarcastic

[DealorNoDeal]

OwlHoot is probably wondering why Ukrainians civilians aren't surrendering to Russian soldiers

I suspect he ain't too bothered what happens to them, so long as they don't come here!

[NotAllThere]

OwlHoot What are you trying to actual achieve by this constant stream of drivel? Persuade people that you're right and they're wrong? Or just wind up the people you think are wrong?

Or is it so that TwoWolves will fall in love with you and agree to meet?

[ladymuck]

I can totally imagine it being said in anger/frustration. Much like a person saying "I'm going to kill that little tulip who kicked a football through my window". They don't expect to be taken literally but in the heat of the moment, taken out of context, or just heard by a person with an axe to grind and it all gets blown out of proportion.

[vetran]

Are you for real? Only one side is deliberately shelling civilian buildings including hospitals. The Ukrainians only 'crime' appears to be killing vastly more Russian troops than anyone expected, including Putin. I think you need to educate yourself on what a war crime is.

Sadly when you put human beings into conflict some people won't respect the rules on both sides. We remember the Germans and Japanese because they organised their war crimes but the Allied troops in a few cases were guilty of war crimes. Sadly in bad situations bad people misbehave.

Russia as you say are organising the abuse, the Ukrainian doctor may be doing this out of hate.

We of course are not entirely innocent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied...;s%20mausoleum.

and in Afghanistan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-592381...%20no%20threat.

and Iraq

https://www.ecchr.eu/en/case/war-cri...orces-in-iraq/

[xoggoth]

What Paddy said in 1st sentence. Easy to take a balanced view when you are not involved but imagine what it's like when you are. Must be hard not to be consumed by hatred and do some awful things in these situations. Of course such things should be banned by international law but prosecutions should take full account of what the perpetrators have gone through.

[NotAllThere]

2022-03-21 Ukrainian doctor tells TV interviewer he has ordered his staff to CASTRATE Russian soldiers

Gennadiy Druzenko, 49, told Ukraine-24 about his alleged order, but it is unclear if it was bravado or a genuine order that would break the Geneva Conventions.

According to the article, he did tell the interviewer that, but whether he actually did it is one thing, and whether anyone has actually carried it out is another. I do recall during the annexation of Crimea, that Ukrainian POWs claimed it had been done to them. I do not know if that was ever confirmed. Report here: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-conf.../26979064.html

From here
According to Druzenko, it was his emotions that prompted him to call for violence against the Russian military. His hospital doctors have never castrated Russian soldiers, he said.

He said he was taking it back. "I'm sorry. We save lives. Period,” Druzenko wrote.




I've amended the subject of this thread in the interests of clarity.

In the meantime, away from what's being pushed as the narrative under discussion by the Kremlin, innocent people continue to lose their lives due to Putin's force's utterly unjustified and unjustifiable invasion of a democratic nation.

[Mordac]

Can't you see that one side is just as bad as another? Looks like war crimes are happening on both sides so we should stop trying to judge. /sarcasm.

This screams misinformation to me.

Are you for real? Only one side is deliberately shelling civilian buildings including hospitals. The Ukrainians only 'crime' appears to be killing vastly more Russian troops than anyone expected, including Putin. I think you need to educate yourself on what a war crime is.

[SueEllen]

Those Eastern Ukrainians who did support Russian have now turned against Russia. Putin is now bombing them into submission, this tactic has never worked in history

Putin seems to have learnt nothing from history - you can invade a country and start a war but if the civilian population doesn't want you there they will fight forever.

That's why Putin is reportedly:
1. Taking Ukrainians into Russia into camps
2. Threatening to kill civilians who won't surrender one way or another
3. Saying Ukraine has chemical and biological weapons, so he can launch an attack.

[Paddy]

2022-03-21 Ukrainian doctor tells TV interviewer he has ordered his staff to CASTRATE Russian soldiers

Oh dear. I haven't read the Geneva convention carefully, but I'm pretty sure there are no rules saying POWs can be castrated.

It would not surprise me if any doctor would say that in anger. The current situation is like the Nazi invasion of Poland. Russian troops are committing war crimes and there is strong evidence of the same. Furthermore, Russian conscripts are being pushed to the front and when killed are incinerated by the Russians in a special truck or buried in mass graves in order to limit dead bodies to be returned to Russia.

Those Eastern Ukrainians who did support Russian have now turned against Russia. Putin is now bombing them into submission, this tactic has never worked in history

[SueEllen]

OwlHoot is probably wondering why Ukrainians civilians aren't surrendering to Russian soldiers