Reply to: I want your wallet

[d000hg]

£300/day for cashpoint. ~£450 with contactless. But unlimited for Apple or Android pay as above.

£5k is a lot but hardly worth dragging people to the ATM which has a camera or holing someone hostage which is why its big news if it happens.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/savings...old-savings-uk

£2K is the average current account balance.

If I can see someone enter a PIN and steal their phone without confrontation it would be reasonable to expect to get £250 without being caught. If I get caught I would get community service. If I batter them to get the pin and phone I might get more money but would be sentenced to 2 years.

The phone is probably worth more than £250 either way, maybe overthinking about queuing to get a phone with a PIN (you will be on camera at the till probably) rather than just nicking more phones and wallets

But wasn't this about contactless anyway?

[vetran]

People get held up at a cashpoint for £300 or whatever the maximum withdrawal is... £5k is definitely big money for a street thug.

£300/day for cashpoint. ~£450 with contactless. But unlimited for Apple or Android pay as above.

£5k is a lot but hardly worth dragging people to the ATM which has a camera or holing someone hostage which is why its big news if it happens.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/savings...old-savings-uk

£2K is the average current account balance.

If I can see someone enter a PIN and steal their phone without confrontation it would be reasonable to expect to get £250 without being caught. If I get caught I would get community service. If I batter them to get the pin and phone I might get more money but would be sentenced to 2 years.

[d000hg]

People get held up at a cashpoint for £300 or whatever the maximum withdrawal is... £5k is definitely big money for a street thug.

[vetran]

Having access to my PIN sounds like 'big money'. What sort of poverty-stricken contractor are you?

You keep more than £5k in your current account?

There is walking about money and savings invested, they are different. When we buy a car, pay for a holiday or similar we transfer money.

[d000hg]

Having access to my PIN sounds like 'big money'. What sort of poverty-stricken contractor are you?

[vetran]

If someone wants to mug you for your phone/CC, they can just ask you your pin anyway

They could, and they could test it there and then rather than dragging you screaming to an ATM. However as the majority of thefts are pickpocketing, bike snatching or similar so confrontation is is not likely (too risky for a few 100 quid).

All the workarounds, chopping fingers off, holding the wife hostage are in my opinion only really useful for big money.

[d000hg]

less of a risk as most pads have anti snoop guards I tend to use multi finger entry. Phones you will see them hunt & peck.

If someone wants to mug you for your phone/CC, they can just ask you your pin anyway

[xoggoth]

Nah, that sounds like lm. You know perfectly well I'm a mean old sod.

[Gibbon]

Agree with some above comments. Limit should be much lower, or make it mandatory for all banks to allow us to set a limit. Mine would be 15 quid.

Not a Tanqueray man then

[ASB]

Surely the cost is much less of an issue the bigger the supermarket because of economies of scale.

Self service tills are in the top 5 supermarkets and as you say they are making a lot of savings.

I assume each supermarket / big chain has bespoke POS? If there were a standard it would have a self scan module. Maybe there is an opportunity there? POS/OS the solution for all small retailers.

Wilko are now doing self scan by pretty much just turning their tills around.

Yes cost is less of an issue. It is amortised across a greater estate. There are a number of standards which help. Assuming of course any of these are implemented in the target system.

The major SCO Providers all provide a defined SCO to POS interface and implementation of it so there is a decent starting point. The issue is that this is, in effect, a "new" thing to integrate to in the client pos.

Generally this will require change, potentially significant, to implement and the pos authors may be reluctant.

It is always doable, but generally messy.

An example may be a trigger for an item sale. The interface layer may need to reformat this to force it thru an rs232 emulator to look like its come from whatever scanner the pos is talking to. It may need to look at the RS232 display output, and or printer output to figure out what has happened and how to respond.

If you have access to the pos code, and are working with the sco provider it is just tedious and time consuming. If you need to "bolt on" to a broadly immutable system its harder.

[xoggoth]

Agree with some above comments. Limit should be much lower, or make it mandatory for all banks to allow us to set a limit. Mine would be 15 quid.

[vetran]

Same as stealing a card having seen the pin.

less of a risk as most pads have anti snoop guards I tend to use multi finger entry. Phones you will see them hunt & peck.

Personally I would set most cards with a max daily transaction limit unless a trusted and insured retailer or a pre arranged transaction.

[vetran]

Initial self scanning (mid 90s) loss actually dropped. This was quite surprising but the main reason seemed to be people not cancelling things they had changed their mind about.

As self checkout appeared (about 03/04 was the first except for one notable case) there wasn't much change. Obviously it was pretty quick for people to start with the two standard frauds. This is more prevelant in the UK than elsewhere.

Particular configuration is also relevant. There was a system under development which was good at scanning as things were moved from trolley to belt on the large format SCO lanes around 08/09. Discrepancy between what you were expected to scan and what you did triggered security algos.

Before I retired a UK retailer was trialling that as you wandered around store by CCTV also. It was something similar Amazon picked up on on their initial fresh offering in some markets.

RFID may yet make a comeback in this arena. But it needs appropriate product labelling and that costs a little more at the point of production. Or shed loads more anywhere else in the supply chain.

Cost in an interesting one. There is high initial cost. However my last customers finances suggested they were saving 409k euro annually for each cluster of 8.

The killer cost is the integration to your PoS software. It tends to be a complex area. There are various techniques dependant on what you are dealing with.

Surely the cost is much less of an issue the bigger the supermarket because of economies of scale.

Self service tills are in the top 5 supermarkets and as you say they are making a lot of savings.

I assume each supermarket / big chain has bespoke POS? If there were a standard it would have a self scan module. Maybe there is an opportunity there? POS/OS the solution for all small retailers.

Wilko are now doing self scan by pretty much just turning their tills around.

[DaveB]

The fecking idiots faffing around with their phone to pay for 10 minutes at the till are a pain in the arse.

My understanding is that there is no limit on such transactions so if you steal a phone having seen the pin you are laughing.

Same as stealing a card having seen the pin.

[ASB]

Dunno if it's just me working with these systems but I it gives me a different view on them. Customers generally say wow great, first thing I think about is the cost, fraud and all the other issues.

Initial self scanning (mid 90s) loss actually dropped. This was quite surprising but the main reason seemed to be people not cancelling things they had changed their mind about.

As self checkout appeared (about 03/04 was the first except for one notable case) there wasn't much change. Obviously it was pretty quick for people to start with the two standard frauds. This is more prevelant in the UK than elsewhere.

Particular configuration is also relevant. There was a system under development which was good at scanning as things were moved from trolley to belt on the large format SCO lanes around 08/09. Discrepancy between what you were expected to scan and what you did triggered security algos.

Before I retired a UK retailer was trialling that as you wandered around store by CCTV also. It was something similar Amazon picked up on on their initial fresh offering in some markets.

RFID may yet make a comeback in this arena. But it needs appropriate product labelling and that costs a little more at the point of production. Or shed loads more anywhere else in the supply chain.

Cost in an interesting one. There is high initial cost. However my last customers finances suggested they were saving 409k euro annually for each cluster of 8.

The killer cost is the integration to your PoS software. It tends to be a complex area. There are various techniques dependant on what you are dealing with.