Reply to: DOOM: Gulf Stream collapse

[d000hg]

I don't doubt it's real but I do not believe it's "caused" by humans driving around in gas guzzling Jaguars and Ferraris. Or flying around the planet on pointless journeys to sun soaked islands. All of those "petrochemicals" were already on the planet.

It's too "short term" when the planet evolves in hundreds of thousands of years, these "specialists" are trying to use data they have collected over a couple of years to "prove" something. That cannpt be proven.

Please try to be less obvious a troll.

[vetran]

I don't doubt it's real but I do not believe it's "caused" by humans driving around in gas guzzling Jaguars and Ferraris. Or flying around the planet on pointless journeys to sun soaked islands. All of those "petrochemicals" were already on the planet.

It's too "short term" when the planet evolves in hundreds of thousands of years, these "specialists" are trying to use data they have collected over a couple of years to "prove" something. That cannpt be proven.

When we know from Geological data that the planet has been much hotter than it is now, and much colder (tropical forests that eventually died and turned into coal seams for one example, Ice age rocks in the middle of valleys in Yorkshire for another example).
All this "energy" we are putting out was already there beforehand, you cannot create new energy, or destroy it, all you can do is change it from one form to another. It was something that ate carbon and sunlight that eventually over millions of years turned into something else. It's always been there. Except maybe in the case of nuclear energy?

Plenty of theories out there. If the planet gets too warm the oceans rather than getting deeper will evaporate more water vapour and create clouds which will reflect sunlight. Ice takes up more "space" than water and most of it is under the surface so if it all melts won't the levels of the oceans drop rather than rise?
Land is being "forced down" by the weight of ice, when it melts won't the land rise up out of the sea?
Who knows.

Similar things have happened in the past when Volcanoes have thrown huge piles of ash into the atmosphere, it cooled the planet, killed off crops etc.
Doesn't make any sense to me that the human race is creating all this supposed warming. Hasn't been happening long enough for any real meaningful data. A few half decent volcanic eruptions could cool the planet enough to give us concerns about failing crops. Stop the planet using sunlight to photosynthesize the CO2 back into Oxygen and carbon based energy holders. Wouldn't take much on a global scale.

For instance we have no idea how quickly the planet warmed up last time, we have no idea really how much higher the Oxygen level was when the planet was totally greened up do we? Or how much the CO2 level was cut back by all the greenery. But some people can get away with blaming digging coal out, burning it and boring for oil... Sounds a bit to convenient to me. The next best thing, dig even more holes to get Lithium out of the floor to make batteries. Yes that's a perfectly sensible TCO project isn't it... Chase the money on that one as well.

Really we know nothing, we as a sentient race haven't been on the planet long enough...But there are a lot of people relying on "Global Warming" to bring a wage home I'd suggest.

For goodness sake don't you understand the sky is falling in and people are making money out of it.

Logic doesn't work for the chicken littles. Ice ages never happened, global droughts are a mirage and Gilgamesh never learnt to swim.

As I said we may be poisoning the world but its doubtful we are destroying it, the world will shake it off and cockroaches will become the master race.

[Lost It]

At what point would you believe that climate change is real ? Melting ice caps, burning forests in many countries, floods in many countries, storms of higher intensity, new records of higher temperature everywhere are these not good enough for you ? Maybe by the time most folks realize the calamities of climate change it will be too late to do anything.

I don't doubt it's real but I do not believe it's "caused" by humans driving around in gas guzzling Jaguars and Ferraris. Or flying around the planet on pointless journeys to sun soaked islands. All of those "petrochemicals" were already on the planet.

It's too "short term" when the planet evolves in hundreds of thousands of years, these "specialists" are trying to use data they have collected over a couple of years to "prove" something. That cannpt be proven.

When we know from Geological data that the planet has been much hotter than it is now, and much colder (tropical forests that eventually died and turned into coal seams for one example, Ice age rocks in the middle of valleys in Yorkshire for another example).
All this "energy" we are putting out was already there beforehand, you cannot create new energy, or destroy it, all you can do is change it from one form to another. It was something that ate carbon and sunlight that eventually over millions of years turned into something else. It's always been there. Except maybe in the case of nuclear energy?

Plenty of theories out there. If the planet gets too warm the oceans rather than getting deeper will evaporate more water vapour and create clouds which will reflect sunlight. Ice takes up more "space" than water and most of it is under the surface so if it all melts won't the levels of the oceans drop rather than rise?
Land is being "forced down" by the weight of ice, when it melts won't the land rise up out of the sea?
Who knows.

Similar things have happened in the past when Volcanoes have thrown huge piles of ash into the atmosphere, it cooled the planet, killed off crops etc.
Doesn't make any sense to me that the human race is creating all this supposed warming. Hasn't been happening long enough for any real meaningful data. A few half decent volcanic eruptions could cool the planet enough to give us concerns about failing crops. Stop the planet using sunlight to photosynthesize the CO2 back into Oxygen and carbon based energy holders. Wouldn't take much on a global scale.

For instance we have no idea how quickly the planet warmed up last time, we have no idea really how much higher the Oxygen level was when the planet was totally greened up do we? Or how much the CO2 level was cut back by all the greenery. But some people can get away with blaming digging coal out, burning it and boring for oil... Sounds a bit to convenient to me. The next best thing, dig even more holes to get Lithium out of the floor to make batteries. Yes that's a perfectly sensible TCO project isn't it... Chase the money on that one as well.

Really we know nothing, we as a sentient race haven't been on the planet long enough...But there are a lot of people relying on "Global Warming" to bring a wage home I'd suggest.

[AtW]

Cretins anti-climate argument will soon shift to their pre final defense: "it's too late (and too expensive!) to do anything anyway" and ultimately end up as - "it's the question of our liberty whether to pollute the planet and there is nothing mentioned in writing about it by the Founding Fathers anyway!"

[BlasterBates]

I was just reinforcing the point that anyone can post a random graph from anywhere that backs up their argument. Although I do find these graphs quite compelling, and you should be able to work out roughly what they repreent from the legends.

There's a big weakness to proxy data. The proxy temperature deviates significantly from the actual temperature record in the latter part of the 20th century. If you had a similar rise of temperature in the past then you wouldn't see it. Therefore the graph says a lot less than you think. You need the assumption that the deviation is a purely 20th century phenomen.

https://skepticalscience.com/Tree-ri...ce-problem.htm

[mattster]

I was just reinforcing the point that anyone can post a random graph from anywhere that backs up their argument. Although I do find these graphs quite compelling, and you should be able to work out roughly what they repreent from the legends.

[minestrone]

So to counter the argument that the data is a bit iffy you just post a couple of graphs you found from god knows where with absolutely no references or explanation.

[mattster]

Agreed, you can cherry pick any data/sata subset/graph you want to make whatever point you want.
Here's the temperature data we have - one thing we do know is that temps have never changed anything like as rapidly as they have in the past hundred years, at least as far as we can deduce from ice core data etc. As it happens, this change also tallies very well with predictions made based on co2 concentrations, and we we can certainly observe co2 rising in real time.

[xoggoth]

Given all the various data, I agree with mattster. Difficult, however, to draw conclusions from some individual graphs like the above, how does one factor in better technology for fighting fires, stricter laws, growing population etc?

[BlasterBates]

This was the graph scientists published in their 2018 US climate assessment report :



Of course they could simply have used this graph which contains the same data. The only difference is that It goes back a bit further.

[minestrone]

At what point would you believe that climate change is real ? Melting ice caps, burning forests in many countries, floods in many countries, storms of higher intensity, new records of higher temperature everywhere are these not good enough for you ? Maybe by the time most folks realize the calamities of climate change it will be too late to do anything.

About 20,000 years ago where I am was probably half a mile deep in ice. When Watt invented his steam engine, which you can reasonably say was the start of the industrial revolution, he didn't do it in an igloo. I don't see any clear evidence that we are changing an existing process and they don't have any clear evidence which is why they always frig the data shown to the public

'Climate change' is just a marketing mechanism now. All the adverts on TV are sponsored by major polluters. The objectives are to get subsidies from governments.

And God promised Noah there would be no flood to destroy the earth, so I'm easy with it all.

[mattster]

This is my biggest problem as well... so much focus on man made climate change which may or may not be happening and is incredibly hard to prove/separate from non man made climate change....

Don't disagree with your point on pollution, but this part is simply not true. We are so certain that climate change is man made now that it really isn't a scientific debate any more. Co2 was first predicted to cause global warming back in the 19th century, and just about every prediction they have made along the way has been met or exceeded. We can measure co2 in the atmosphere, and we can even estimate the age of the new co2 through carbon dating so we know exactly where it is coming from. Of course the earth has warmed and cooled before, but what is happening now is happening orders of magnitude faster than anything we have been able to observe from the past. We might not be able to predict all of the step change events that are going to be triggered along the way (ice sheeets melting, loss of albedo, methane thawing in the tundra etc), but everyone we do learn about makes matters worse than before. The bottom line is that we are probably screwed unless get develop some serious new recapture tech.

[NotAllThere]

its basic chemistry. CO2 is a green house gas which traps the heat and CO2 in atmosphere is at all time high.
Do you think there is another factor for warming , which has been missed by the world's scientists. Enlighten us.

Yeah, but they're all in it for the money, obedience to their zionist overlords.

[Andy2]

Climate change is very real. Its been happening since the Earth was formed.

Man made climate change is more contentious. We might well poison the world, we may not be changing the climate.

its basic chemistry. CO2 is a green house gas which traps the heat and CO2 in atmosphere is at all time high.
Do you think there is another factor for warming , which has been missed by the world's scientists. Enlighten us.

[jayn200]

Climate change is very real. Its been happening since the Earth was formed.

Man made climate change is more contentious. We might well poison the world, we may not be changing the climate.

This is my biggest problem as well... so much focus on man made climate change which may or may not be happening and is incredibly hard to prove/separate from non man made climate change.... when we are literally irreversibly poisoning the world as well as lots of localized pollution which causes all sorts of real quality of life issues. Been framing the wrong problem... and it's sad because actually both problems have mostly common causes soo if they just framed the right problem people might actually work towards a solution. It's so sad.