Reply to: My Daily Rate?

[PaulCD]

Jesus! I hope you presentations are clearer than that post!

£375 - 450 a day for a trainer!? Dont think I've ever come across a trainer whether in IT or not, as being worth that.

In my experience that is exceptional for an IT Trainer but is not unusual for a specialised ERP Trainer (SAP or Oracle etc.).

[cojak]

You haven't met them all then...

[BolshieBastard]

The money to be had from Training is pumping out "Standard" Courses (or at best BullTuliping that its been "Tailored" for the customer) cos as has been said prep for a decent Course is too "heavy"......

I have a contact who makes a good living "Training" - she pumps out her Standard Courses "Tailored" with Glossy covers, Client Co headers etc.
She starts by charging 2 days prep plus x days for the course..... but will negotiate down to 1 day prep...... if she gets a series of courses she is laughing...... but she sometimes ends up doing a sort of "loss leader"....

She re-does the (basic) course work every few months - during bench time.....

But (and its a big but) she does basic Generic courses...... if you really have to "write" a course for a client you really have to charge for the prep..... and there can be a lot of it......

I do a lot of Training/Mentoring - but lots of my Training "Stuff" is nailed together from POC Presentations and the like.... and the actual Training Material is "Standard but Tweaked" with new (ClientCo specific) screen shots etc...... and I do all the prep and the Training on my standard day rates....... I have only ever done one gig that was specifically Training (and not Process design/Implementation etc) and that was about 6months after I did the implementation and prepared the course for "Someone else"...... ("Someone else" couldn't really hack standing in front of 10-15 people so they bought me back t do it...... I will add that "Someone else" was perfectly able to do it when I stood next to them.... it was just a confidence thing!)

Jesus! I hope you presentations are clearer than that post!

£375 - 450 a day for a trainer!? Dont think I've ever come across a trainer whether in IT or not, as being worth that.

[Fred Bloggs]

Ooh, that's a good one!

"You see, Ms Plumber, you really should unblock my toilet at your own expense - although my faeces may appear glutinous, I can assure you that once word has spread, you will be eagerly sought by people whose excrement has an adhesive quality that will bring you world renown in the clearance thereof!"

[cojak]

The money to be had from Training is pumping out "Standard" Courses (or at best BullTuliping that its been "Tailored" for the customer) cos as has been said prep for a decent Course is too "heavy"......

I have a contact who makes a good living "Training" - she pumps out her Standard Courses "Tailored" with Glossy covers, Client Co headers etc.
She starts by charging 2 days prep plus x days for the course..... but will negotiate down to 1 day prep...... if she gets a series of courses she is laughing...... but she sometimes ends up doing a sort of "loss leader"....

She re-does the (basic) course work every few months - during bench time.....

But (and its a big but) she does basic Generic courses...... if you really have to "write" a course for a client you really have to charge for the prep..... and there can be a lot of it......

I do a lot of Training/Mentoring - but lots of my Training "Stuff" is nailed together from POC Presentations and the like.... and the actual Training Material is "Standard but Tweaked" with new (ClientCo specific) screen shots etc...... and I do all the prep and the Training on my standard day rates....... I have only ever done one gig that was specifically Training (and not Process design/Implementation etc) and that was about 6months after I did the implementation and prepared the course for "Someone else"...... ("Someone else" couldn't really hack standing in front of 10-15 people so they bought me back t do it...... I will add that "Someone else" was perfectly able to do it when I stood next to them.... it was just a confidence thing!)

And that's why I've never really bothered with bog-standard training, it's a lot of outlay for what is a modest income (unless you get other trainers to run your courses after you've created them, and then you need to become a salesman to bring the punters in.)

I don't even bother putting my CIPD trainer's qualifications on my CV these days.

[NickFitz]

Good luck with the training as a side gig cojak , the last bunch of cheeky bast***s from Kuala Lumpur who asked told me that I would have to do the seminar gratis because their seminars were so prestigious that the networking opportunities that would come my way were compensation enough! Yeah.............. Like I'm gonna fall for that line! (I like KL though, shame.)

Ooh, that's a good one!

"You see, Ms Plumber, you really should unblock my toilet at your own expense - although my faeces may appear glutinous, I can assure you that once word has spread, you will be eagerly sought by people whose excrement has an adhesive quality that will bring you world renown in the clearance thereof!"

[Drewster]

The money to be had from Training is pumping out "Standard" Courses (or at best BullTuliping that its been "Tailored" for the customer) cos as has been said prep for a decent Course is too "heavy"......

I have a contact who makes a good living "Training" - she pumps out her Standard Courses "Tailored" with Glossy covers, Client Co headers etc.
She starts by charging 2 days prep plus x days for the course..... but will negotiate down to 1 day prep...... if she gets a series of courses she is laughing...... but she sometimes ends up doing a sort of "loss leader"....

She re-does the (basic) course work every few months - during bench time.....

But (and its a big but) she does basic Generic courses...... if you really have to "write" a course for a client you really have to charge for the prep..... and there can be a lot of it......

I do a lot of Training/Mentoring - but lots of my Training "Stuff" is nailed together from POC Presentations and the like.... and the actual Training Material is "Standard but Tweaked" with new (ClientCo specific) screen shots etc...... and I do all the prep and the Training on my standard day rates....... I have only ever done one gig that was specifically Training (and not Process design/Implementation etc) and that was about 6months after I did the implementation and prepared the course for "Someone else"...... ("Someone else" couldn't really hack standing in front of 10-15 people so they bought me back t do it...... I will add that "Someone else" was perfectly able to do it when I stood next to them.... it was just a confidence thing!)

[Fred Bloggs]

Good luck with the training as a side gig cojak , the last bunch of cheeky bast***s from Kuala Lumpur who asked told me that I would have to do the seminar gratis because their seminars were so prestigious that the networking opportunities that would come my way were compensation enough! Yeah.............. Like I'm gonna fall for that line! (I like KL though, shame.)

[cojak]

I've given up on it too Fred. I've some courses/workshops that I've created while I'm on the bench that I offer (and one that I'll be running next week), but generally you don't get the continuous employment as a straight IT trainer.

I PM training on transition/implementation projects but I restrict that to every 3rd contract or so as it's easy to be 'ghetto'ed into training.

I earn more doing my specialism than training in it.

[Fred Bloggs]

This is spot on...

That's why I never do training gigs. I get offered quite a few short ones in nice locations, Singapore, Dubai, Abu Dhabi etc, but the effort involved in preparation of the material that I consider essential is too much. I reckon that for every 1 day of training using new, unique course content, I need to prepare for about two weeks to do a top notch job. The rates just don't cover that kind of effort and a shoddy training presentation is a toe curling experience when you see one.

[cojak]

Have to say, IME, training outfits charge a whole bunch of moolah for the courses they offer, but pay very little this on to the trainers. If you can get a day rate like that, great, but I think your upside on negotiating your rate is slim, myself.

This is spot on...

[cojak]

WHS, if you go for a lower rate the chances are high the agent will pocket this amount,
probably best to go for slightly higher rate given agent has said your the only candidate.

Also make sure contract is IR35 compliant might explain the higher rate offered if it's not.

WHS with bells on.

Except for the IR35 bit. For a rather niche area that's the going rate.

But you're a trainer for God's sake. Buy a couple of books, hit google. Your skill is to impart knowledge. If you're a good trainer you're worth it. If you're a rubbish trainer you're not.

On the basis that you're a good 'un and the training isn't especially niche, £375 is a good rate.

[d000hg]

I'm sure you're not the only one who sometimes has a reality check "they're paying me HOW much a day?!"

But you really have to forget the actual number, and instead go by the market. If everyone is paying £1000, ask for that. If everyone is stuck on £200, put up with it.

If you didn't already sour it by mentioning any sign of uncertainty, you could say "I see it's listed at £375 but I was looking at more like £400-425". Not a big difference and you'll probably get negotiated back to £375 - or as a first time contractor they may push harder, who knows.

If you are in a steady job, play the game and be picky. If you need the money, adjust the strategy.

[lxt04]

I think for my first company I might go for an umbrella company and, if contracting is for me, then I'll get MyCo Ltd set up and sort out an accountant and all that. Unless that sounds like a horrific idea of course...?

Seems like a good one to me - and it's what I did. You can get started straight away without delay, and then have all the requisite paperwork (business bank account, VAT registration number, etc) all ready to go when you come off your first contract. You'll miss out on a bit of cash, but many people would say it's worth it for the short-term. My first contract was three months, which I did on an umbrella, and then moved over to my own Ltd Co. when it came up for renewal.

[GillsMan]

Thanks all, very helpful replies here!

do not talk yourself down and do not get talked down. the agency has probably proposed you to the client at 500 and told them it would be 600 if not for the fact that you are a first timer. if you say you would be happier on 350 the agent will simply pocket the difference. you might be nervous about not having all the skills but don't worry - you'll spend the first two weeks (if not two months) twidling your thumbs waiting for stuff to happen by which time you will already be settled. in the land of the blind etc.

frankly i think it is a great sign of economic recovery that first timers are being pulled out of permie land.

Cheers for that, and yeah, the agy has come back asking me to confirm that I'm happy for him to represent me. He's offered me slightly less than the advertised rate, so I figure that he's picked up on my hesitancy and, as you say, pocketing the difference. Tbh, I'll chalk that down to my own inexperience, and I'll be a little more forceful in future.

If you are new to the rates and all this have you made sure your clear about LTD/Company, got an accountant and all the other gumpf that comes with contracting?

Yup, actually I've been lurking on this site for a while garnering lots of information. I think for my first company I might go for an umbrella company and, if contracting is for me, then I'll get MyCo Ltd set up and sort out an accountant and all that. Unless that sounds like a horrific idea of course...?