Reply to: Gov UK One Login

[willendure]

Your perspective is wrong then, the sole purpose of doing things with computers is not just to make them easier, there are a number of situations where a small increase in effort (or making things harder) will increase overall value, in OLfG case better security and assurance in identity verification is the trade off for some people being struggling with a service which has been designed to be as simple as possible.

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/se...-simple-to-use

Well ok, I agree that security is one reason to something a little harder.

But to give an example, I was the architect on a government service, following this service manual but the Scottish version of it (pretty much the same). This service required 3 digital signings in its original form, using Law society PKI cards. Only 1 was really needed once we checked it carefully with the lawyers, we redesigned a legacy service to the modern standards, and streamlined it down to 1 digital signature.

The service standards are very clear and when followed correctly do result in high quality services designed to be usable to users with low or impaired computer skills too.

This Gov One Login thing really does not meet the standards. And the companies house service ? not even close.

[SimonMac]

My perspective is that doing things with a computer is meant to make them easier, not harder.

Your perspective is wrong then, the sole purpose of doing things with computers is not just to make them easier, there are a number of situations where a small increase in effort (or making things harder) will increase overall value, in OLfG case better security and assurance in identity verification is the trade off for some people being struggling with a service which has been designed to be as simple as possible.

https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/se...-simple-to-use

[willendure]

My perspective is that doing things with a computer is meant to make them easier, not harder.

Its got to the point now, where things that used to be simple, like buying a train ticket, seem to involve visiting 3 websites, and plowing through 6 screens on each, and filling in your details 4 times.

The point of computers is to automate repetitive tasks, so that we are released from the burden. But every government or business wants us to jump through their hoops, their system, not find some better way that it could be done.

For example, maybe I could hash my details onto a blockchain, and buying a train ticket would be a simple one click operation where personal details, id verification and payment are all seamlessly handled in a hassle free way.

I wanted to ID through the post office for this companies house thing, because there is one right next to my office, and getting the PDF for this ID check on my phone was less hassle than installing the app, I could just nip down there at lunchtime and hey its even nice to have some real human interaction in the process too. But no, that would be too easy, too much like the old days, when things were actually simpler to do on the whole.

My mother says, when my dad passes away, and she has to deal with all the bills, she wants an electric bill based on a real meter read, and to pay it by writing a check and sticking it in the post! The only thing that ever got her intersted in trying out a computer was that she could view property ads on it, but after trying that she said it was quicker just to scan the paper magazine they still publish and read the particulars.

[Cookielove]

sadkingbilly you haven’t read what I wrote.

I’m not running a Ltd co ….closed it a few years ago.

It’s nothing to do with that.

I’m a director of a company that manages a block of flats, the running of the company is all done by an estate agent who are the managing agents. A few of us are directors we meet once a year for an AGM that’s it. The running is all done by the agents who are paid a management fee.

Bit rich coming from you when most of your posts are either sarky or inane comments

[Protagoras]

I do find it interesting that when the government wants information from its citizens, people are up in arms over their civil liberties. However they're more than happy for Google, Apple , Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, some random app developer or website builder to hoover up all manner of personal data. They're the ones more likely to lead to an identity theft situation.

Register on haveibeenpwned.com and see how many times websites have been hacked with your personal data involved. Then tell me that you're way better off with the private sector "looking after" your data compared to the government wanting one time use of an app (that you can then delete afterwards if you think it's spying on you more than Instagram does) to confirm who you are for the purposes of limited company compliance.

This is so true. I don't use Google or any 'social media' although I do post in various old-fashioned web forums, but my problem isn't so much risk of data loss - that risk is accepted as soon as one goes online.

Rather it's forcing people to buy a relatively expensive device to be able to engage and then to having to spend time on setup and trying to use the systems. The user experience is often terrible; a paper form and a pen or a telephone service are much less bother in many cases.

And I'm still sure that there will become a point for most people at which the tech is 'too difficult' to use, or passes the CBA threshold.

[sadkingbilly]

Lol it’s not a professional forum though is it…it’s nasty comments by people making digs at a reasonable question.

C’mon you can see what WTFH wrote a lot of uncalled for, irrelevant nonsense off the back of a reasonable question I asked. He didn’t need to get personal and write all that guff aimed at me. That was personal and vindictive.

Who is supposed to be beholden to who.

Same happens on the state of the market thread. A lot of sniping and pettiness. So it’s no longer a professional space it’s hit the buffers much like the IT contractor market.

professionals don't behave like whining snowflakes.
Running a LTDco entails lots of bullsh1t imposed by Gov.
Just deal with it FFS.

[ladymuck]

I do find it interesting that when the government wants information from its citizens, people are up in arms over their civil liberties. However they're more than happy for Google, Apple , Microsoft, Adobe, Facebook, some random app developer or website builder to hoover up all manner of personal data. They're the ones more likely to lead to an identity theft situation.

Register on haveibeenpwned.com and see how many times websites have been hacked with your personal data involved. Then tell me that you're way better off with the private sector "looking after" your data compared to the government wanting one time use of an app (that you can then delete afterwards if you think it's spying on you more than Instagram does) to confirm who you are for the purposes of limited company compliance.

[Cookielove]

Lol it’s not a professional forum though is it…it’s nasty comments by people making digs at a reasonable question.

C’mon you can see what WTFH wrote a lot of uncalled for, irrelevant nonsense off the back of a reasonable question I asked. He didn’t need to get personal and write all that guff aimed at me. That was personal and vindictive.

Who is supposed to be beholden to who.

Same happens on the state of the market thread. A lot of sniping and pettiness. So it’s no longer a professional space it’s hit the buffers much like the IT contractor market.

[jamesbrown]

Yeah, because winking at a hair trigger mod in a professional forum is bound to end well

[Cookielove]

WTFH wouldn’t expect anything less from you as per …

Am not claiming to be anything at the moment . A disguised employee would be fab!

What a nasty rant of a post …who is talking about football songs…maybe get back on your meds.

[NotAllThere]

My take on life is that most people will reach a point where they are unable to operate a computer or smart phone either through physical or mental impairment.

The inability to handle things is unrelated to technology. If you can't handle a computer or a smartphone, chances are you'd have difficulty with whatever you need it for, over the phone. My dad at 89 is quite adept; but my mother at 86 hasn't been able to use whatsapp for 3 years now.

I'm rather younger and still get my kids to do stuff I'm too lazy to learn how to do.

[WTFH]

My take on life is that most people will reach a point where they are unable to operate a computer or smart phone either through physical or mental impairment.

People should not be forced to use online mechanisms.

Some of us don’t have local libraries and this will probably get worse.

My dad is in his 90s and is perfectly capable of using a mobile phone/computer.
People who allegedly are running companies either need to be able to do so using standard technology - computers have been around for over half a century, smart phones for a quarter of a century, this isn't "new technology", it is current business.
If someone is too impaired to operate a device - even an adapted one - I would argue that they should not be the director of a company, because that sounds very like manipulation and a tax dodge for others.
Or to put it another way, the song "football's coming home" was released 30 years ago this year. That means it is the same length of time between 1966 and when that song was released as it is between the song being released and now.
For someone on this forum - claiming to be a contractor, but unwilling to use technology - that is a cop-out. I suspect they are really just a disguised employee, or someone who is not prepared to pay for the advice and support they need.

[jamesbrown]

I am going to guess dollars to donuts that you posted this on a mobile phone which stores your biometrics, running software from one of two companies who actively sell your data, and are quite open about it as part of their operating model

Exactly. As far as gov't systems go, I bet they have a biometric passport too

[SimonMac]

My take on life is that most people will reach a point where they are unable to operate a computer or smart phone either through physical or mental impairment.

People should not be forced to use online mechanisms.

Some of us don’t have local libraries and this will probably get worse.

Your take would be wrong

https://roadmap-for-modern-digital-g...tal-inclusion/

[SimonMac]

Yes I have read it and don't want to have my bio-metrics and the app installed....

I am going to guess dollars to donuts that you posted this on a mobile phone which stores your biometrics, running software from one of two companies who actively sell your data, and are quite open about it as part of their operating model